Sombra was reworked for 5v5. I agree with the overall sentiment that OW2 should’ve been kept in the wing until they properly reworked heros.
Just an ultimate change. She got a soft rework into OW2 and it’s good.
Anti being oppressive can be adjusted numbers wise. Doesn’t require a rework.
Absolutely not lmao.
Most work fine or perform better in 5v5. Very few heros need further adjustments for the format. Sure you can argue a handful could do better in the format but that’s not the same as them not fitting.
kiriko needs lose immortality (as once you learn it you can negate basically anything lethal.
ana just needs anti at longer cd or reduced block amount. its still really strong even at 75% (as 75% of 60 hp/s is 45 less hp/s. (meaning targets only getting 15 hp/s which gives em chance to keep em alive)
ana’s would make it so kiriko isnt picked to coutner her.
kiriko losing immortality means she’d not be picked as she wouldnt outshine others.
keeps both strong but less “must picks” and lets other supports get played more.
mercy, zen, brig, bap, moira have all gotten nerfs w/o compensation.
dps have too.(example genji, mei, & sym)
you can’t assume buffs/nerf until you know how it works with just the change done.
if it ends up needing em then can add em but getting change doesnt mean its required for buffs.
thats what OW devs dont understand. they will chaneg stuff and instantly buff w/o much data to see if its actually needed.
wont fix her in high tier as ppl can hit mobile heroes.
makes her too storng in low tier where ppl cant hit.
still have an unhealthy hero with bad design.
1 aa + headshot = dead 200hp hero.
w/o amp.
as she has charge it by aa’s its basically un touched.
doesnt even need her to do the dmg. as she has a team alsoing doing dmg.
again…pharah design issue. flying niche will never work in hitscan/sniper favored game.
her reworks were done to try and make her strogner, while not being unfair.
not if ppl like/hate it. (thats a byproduct)
you realzie stealth would have a cd?
current sombra: invis, hack, dps, relocate, heal, stealth, repeat.
a stealth cd: invis, hack, dps, relocate, heal, stealth not off cd. (thus no speed boost lowering rate at which she can return to the fight from invis in backlines)
That’s why top 500 is littered with tracers, echos and sojourns, it’s their low mobility. Also why coincidently sojourn is more dominant than widowmaker, it’s sojourns lack of mobility I guess.
I think this is by far a reference to mercy, more so than any other character.
Ah that’s why everyone’s playing sojourn with mercy pocket then, they have her just as an ornament. I do agree she could use more nerfs, no doubt about it. But there’s a common denominator between ashe/mercy and ashe getting nerfed, sojourn/mercy and pharahmercy.
Beg to differ, it’s the absurdly low effort synergy between mercy and dps.
Depends which rework you’re referring to. 1st rework was done to try and maker her easier. Ow2 rework was done because tanks complained they would get deleted on hack, but in ow1 the other tank could try to mitigate it. In overwatch 2 however, there’s no other tank to mitigate it and you can’t afford one tank not having any mitigation for 6s. Hence the rework for ow2, instead of just making tanks immune to hack.
This now rework, Alec Dawson specifically said there’s larger imbalance of fun. If they weren’t reworking for “this is unfun” cassidy wouldn’t have his flashbang replaced with the braindead nade.
I’ve played her since her release. Stealth even now has CD. Stealth CD starts after you come out of it, not after you use your translocator. By the time you translocated, CD has worn off. More so with indestructible translocator I could literally toss it on the nearest pack and use it as a recall.
sojourn is pseudo sniper.
echo has flexibility via ult.
tracer is unmatched in hyper mobility and the popular supports are effectively free kills.
mobility only gets you so far and pharah’s mobility would do nothing as theres no LoS in the air (and air is her entire niche)
fun fact: for half games life mercy was never issue (excluding god mode mass rez which was dumb mistake)
her beams were never an issue.
and devs could easily disable dmg amp working on strong dmg (as they’ve done it to junks tire and hanzo’s dragon in past)
it increase her dmg period.
zen’s orb would do exact same thing. (but he lacks mobility to escape flanks)
also fact mercy’s healing is reliable.
blizzards kink for strong hitscan
and again pharmercy has been a thing forever and wasnt an issue for ages (mainly becasue hitscan were weak but also the infinite air time GA gave mercy which i have supported being nerfed to give pharmercy downtime by needing touch grass before dashing to same target)
ppl hate pharah even w/o mercy.
she can basically only be hit by hitscan (not all heroes are) and stuff like s76/cree have dmg ffalloff on top of having hit small target a mile in sky.
pharah users also have hate on her for useless ult (again design flaw in a channeled ult w/o any cover possible = free kill)
again: zen has discord.
a mercy pocketign a pharha isnt helping rest of her team.
there is a trade off.
that was due to removal of cc from dps.
be glad cree got that bomb as mei got crap in exchange for her lsot cc.
that was on a reworked stealth
not anything we have or had.
you’d tune it so she can’t have it all time to lwoer her pressure (so there is a downside to engaging at a bad time)
I feel like when you are talking about Sombra’s stealth, you are talking about the duration - meaning how long she can stay invisible.
Cooldown refers to when you can go back into stealth. Your wording implies that she doesn’t have that - that she has no downtime from when she exits stealth and can re-enter.
She was, since the beginning of time itself, that’s why her boosters got nerfed so she occasionally (given she doesn’t rocketjump) has to touch grass.
Yes, if used incorrectly it’s a suicide. Mostly use it for a quick pick, or have the team pour resources into it to keep the pharah alive. It can occasionally work on a flank, but it’s still difficult and you can get away with it once per match, unless the enemy team is completely oblivious and doesn’t wonder where you are when they don’t see you.
Not even nearly as low effort in terms of synergy, as mercy pocket.
Yes.
Meis TTK decreased, that was the trade off. By the time it took you to freeze and HS, is the same time it takes you to kill the target with just primary.
What? Stealth has had and has a cooldown. It’s 6s.
This is so ridiculous to me. You are contradicting yourself. First you advocated against perma stealth because bad sombras were useless and weren’t engaging as often as they should. Now you basically are arguing for sombras to be useless but also not have stealth.
This is what happens when someone who has never touched a hero, advocates for said hero changes.
my topic on it was concept of a duration based stealth (like her og one) and a cd after out of it.
reasoning: inf stealth is bad to play agaisnt (and encourages less engagement at lower tiers which teaches bad habit)
duration stealth (with a xsec cd) that encourages more engagement & also more risk (due to not being invis she can get targeted more often)
not really.
discord/amp only became issues after strong hitscan took over.
pharah target. not a pharmercy target.
it is.
mercy’s requires ur target to hit. (and pharahs rockets arent hard to avoid from afar)
discord requires up to 5 ppl hittign target. (and he can swap it on demand & benefit & support team all at same time)
the topic was a changed stealth…ergo the ones we have had would NOT be them.
and 6sec is too short (as again you don’t want her stealthed so frequently)
no. its to reduce pressure (as in dps, bailing, and back in 3seconds) not reducing efefctiveness (as she could get dmg buff)
except I have used her.
a lot actually (shes in my top 6 heroes i believe).
edit: just checked., she is #4 most played. https://i.imgur.com/bvSazBE.png
So what would be the cooldown? How would you manage it?
Now and before, stealth cooldown starts when sombra comes out of stealth and its 6s.
What is your idea of a balanced stealth?
You do realize dmg counts as pressure. I’d love to trade off bit of stealth for damage. Means my ttk goes down and I can secure a kill. At the moment I’m there to force out enemy support cooldowns on me and best case scenario, secure a kill. My in stealth time typically isn’t long, unless its in between fights.
Thing is they’ve gotten nothing correct in ow2 yet. So it goes beyond being “just humans” and more towards being incompetent and not good at their job.
Unless they’re role swapping her, I have bottom level expectations. Just about every Sombra change they’ve ever made has just been 1 step forward, 3 steps back.
The closest I can imagine them ever coming to “fixing” her in DPS would be by stripping all the last vestiges of her identity and I really don’t want to see that happen.
If you accuse someone of being incompetent and bad at their job, it implies you know better and that they’re making objectively bad decisions. Otherwise that’s not incompetency, they’re simply doing things you don’t like. I don’t call the WoW dev team incompetent because I don’t like WoW.
So why are they reworking her for the 3rd time now. Couldn’t have they just adjusted the numbers, even on ow1 sombra?
Here’s the thing no one thinks about, or willfully ignores. Sombra, when out of stealth, has no usable utility. Stealth, translocator and hack are all setup utilities. But when she’s there, in the fight, her stealth is useless, her hack will get interrupted and her translocator is her downtime.
Compare it to tracer in the enemy backline, more dps, 3 rechargable blinks and recall, less hp.
Compare it to genji in the enemy backline, stronger dps, dash with reset, deflect, double jump, wallclimb.
Compare it to reaper in the enemy backline, much more dps, more hp, selfheal, wraith form and teleport.
Now if you criple sombra to reduce her uptime, and nerf setup utility, how would you compensate for it?
Meanwhile I don’t remember a single point in ow1 where streamers and high tier players resorted to preferring quickplay due to atrocious in game balance, even at its worst.
(and air is her entire niche)