It is the Sombra way though, as a Sombra player, you know this.
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You mean they are both impactful as supports should be? The shocker.
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Yes yes, but my point is how kiriko wouldn’t be designed this strong right now, if bionade didn’t exist and if she wasn’t given suzu because of nade’s existence.
But yes absolutely, if she kept suzu and ana left the game for a bit. She would still be played because it’s what happens you bloat any hero’s kit. The ability to 2 tap, a teleport ability that self cleanses and essentially makes her undivable, vertical mobility with wall climbing and an ability that:
- Cleanses all negative effects.
- Immortality.
- Invulnerability.
- Provides a burst of healing.
All that on a 14 second cooldown.
No. That’s not what I said at all in fact. It’s more like, more impactful than anyone else in the game and too strong for there own role which causes them to bottleneck their role into having no variety because they are that much better than everyone else.
And no, it’s not about making other supports better (other than some specific ones) it’s about making them weaker.
Don’t forget slimmer character hitbox than tracer and larger projectile hitbox than hanzo.
Those are kinda important in a shooter.
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Well we cant know that for sure. But sure atm anti is one of the strongest cleansable abilties, plus then some ultimates.
Anyways during ow1 blizzard experimented with moira to have a suzu like ability, and ow1 had even more cleansable effects in game at that time.
So suzu to me kind of feels like a “leftover” from that experiment to certain extent.
A Sombra rework is a W for humanity, a W for all.
its not.
pharah’s issue is even w/o mercy her issues exist.
its feast or famine.
tune her any way you want and shes not gonna work as a unit in air is fre kill for sniping/hitscan.
Pharah actually use to work even w/o mercy.
then devs went all in on hitscan being best dps…which is her counter.
issue is what they dont do.
A lot of sombra will spend too long invis and end up underperforming (perm invis encourages this mentality)
also bad as enemy will never know where she is. (ok for periods of time but not always)
duration based invis was better as it let her get around enemy, but also made her have to engage more often (and thus alert enemy to her more often)
and given she can go undetected , hack and burst someone, then bail out in an ainstant it wont ever be healthy that way.
you mean problem support 1 and problem support 2?
ana’s kit shut out basically every other support due to how strong anti is (and she had hard cc and best flexible support ult at time)
kiriko exists literally due to ana’s anti heal & has the immunity buff (that like brig’s stun) also works on every other hero not just what it was designed to counter mainly.
anti was tuneable to make it a non issue. (just increase cd or reduce block%)
devs answer? brig 2.0 effect…makign a hero to counter it and introduce more issues with the counter efefcting everythign else.
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My point is, if mercy wasn’t a pocket, pharah would have room for buffs. As it is now, she can’t. Because whatever you do to make her self sufficient (apart from maybe replace 50-75hp with shields to allow rocketjumps) will make her a menace with a pocket. Same reason why ashe was nerfed, oneshot with pocket. Same reason why sojourn feels unchanged even after nerfs.
Yeah they seem to favor hitscan, especially with map designs. It’s still not impossible to play into hitscan, just requires more of ground pharah, but is doable.
Well you kinda made a point I wanted to make.
Infinite stealth in itself is useless. Uptime is what differentiates good sombras from bad ones, which isn’t necessarily bad.
However I would like stealth on a timer, but in order to compensate for it, they would probably revert the speed in invis changes making her faster. Which in turn means a lot more uptime, which I think would anger people yet again and we would be back where we are now.
Not so, I would use invis at times to ping enemy flanks or a potential group up near a choke. I don’t think I use the ping system as intensively with any other hero as I do with Sombra.
I main both sombra and pharah, I ping like a madman on both. On pharah I can have similar information as on sombra.
I still think best thing that ever happened coming to ow2 is the ping system.
So much so I now feel crippled in games that don’t have it.
I can see this working out
30 secs? That sounds fair? Will reward planning i.e. risk vs reward.
Ping system is great until players start to completely ignore it. To which then you have no choice but to go old fashion and call every single thing out.
The amount of times I can ping certain enemies that are out of position and to get hard focused and then it’s only me shooting them anyway.
what buffs?
armor? she’d be too strong as even hitscan couldnt hurt her enoguh before she kills em.
dmg? shes bad even with the dmg of amp (becasue dmg isnt her issue)
again its not mercy issue. its core design issue. a flying dps in a game where hitscan/sniping is top dog.
nerf? she was buffed.
and again dmg amp isnt only a mercy thing.
Discord exists (and is better) and has even been ran along side pharah in past as alternative to mercy.
…proving my point of design not working in current game.
her entire thing is flight. grounding her ur better off using any other dps basically.
doesnt matter what ppl like/hate.
its about balancing a hero.
and a cd on stealth means downtime so she cant fight, teleport, and be back instantly w/o you knowing.
less time invis = more chance to get killed.
can do that with duration based stealth.
way too long.
if anyone is in stealth for 30sec they are not doing their job and actually harming team by making ti 4v5 effectively.
as a support who pings enemy flankers only to have entire team ignore me (even when they are right next to em) I agree.
Okay, we are brain storming. 25? Take 10-15 secs to get in position and an extra 10-15 secs while your team pushes.
I think that sounds fair no?
If stealth is changed to be on duration, there have to be compensation buffs - either the damage to hacked targets is buffed or the silence duration is increased.
speed boost in stealth only needs 10sec tops. (it was fine in its original version)
she has translocator to get around even outside it.
also why is team taking that long to push?
which is fine if needed.
again less invis time = more risk.
that could mean more buffs to offset risk.
tuning #'s is easier when your kits healthy.
Why do Ana and Kiriko need rework?
Buffs would definitely be needed. If you remove an aspect from one area, you would have to compensate by adding something to an aspect in another area, that’s the whole point of balancing.
They did, but sometimes devs get things wrong (they are just humans) and something that worked well (or even just okay) in limited scope internal/beta testing doesn’t necessarily showcase all the potential problems. Letting millions of people (of a very wide variety of skill levels) play with something for several months can reveal issues that weren’t originally easily predictable.
eg. mobility. Not everything is tank or dps.
Her oneshot was nerfed, which got compensated with mercy pocket. Sojourn is the sole reason why mercy is considered strong right now.
No it’s not, but as mercy being a dps pocket support, her synergy with dps requires a LOT less coordination than any other damage boosting ability. This is why pharahmercy is so strong at lower tiers and is weaker and weaker the higher you go.
Apparently it does, otherwise sombra wouldn’t get reworked, instead of just adjustments.
Actually not really. If she would get timers back (I’ve played her since her release), her stealth speed would increase to compensate, meaning she can be back in position a lot faster than previously, meaning more uptime overall.
While waiting for engagements, between fights I just used map covers to stay out of sight before going into stealth. Not much changed except me being slower in stealth, being slower to re-engage as stealth speed is slower and translator destructible (requiring safer positioning). With indestructible translocator, I could literally keep it on a mega if situation allowed it, and anyone trying to camp it, would have to fight me full hp. They would’t be able to kill it to get rid of my only way out.