I love, how everyone tries to be the smartest here.
Yeah what about them? This is a thread about Genji. Don’t be cringe.
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Why would anyone wanna nerf rein from being top tank in a sea of mediocrity his damage is an aspect I like as a mayhem enjoyer makes him viable vs monkey as a counter
In what meta would you play Genji lol
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Yeah, it’s like a 5th grade argument.
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Why bother replying to me Armsracer?
You always do this, you just completely fabricate total fiction saying “you say this” which is a total fantasy.
You say people said things they never even implied then declare your argument proves something it doesn’t. Let your argument speak for itself, if you didn’t there would be zero obvious conclusion from your reasoning, you have to force it by declaring “therefore [non-sequitur]”
But 29 damage shuriken doesn’t help secure a combo kill on ANY of the top played heroes.
We’ve been through all the damage thresholds, 29 damage doesn’t change anything on number of hits to kill with enemies of 200HP or 225HP.
6 hits from 28 damage shuriken + 50 damage of dash does more than 200 damage and less than 225 damage.
6 hits from 29 damage shuriken + 50 damage of dash ALSO does more than 200 damage and LESS than 225 damage.
NO CHANGES IN HITS TO KILL!
This only helps spam, it only helps with spamming out damage on tanks slowly wearing down health at a quicker rate.
No they won’t.
Lowering the shuriken damage enough that the damage rate is lower but preserving the 200 damage combo punishes spam while preserving the skilful combo.
With 6 degrees of spread you can dash for 50 damage then land all 3 shurikens as headshots for a very quick 200 damage combo. And as it doesn’t require a quickmelee finisher you can instantly use dash to escape.
That’s not skill that’s dumb luck.
There is nothing skillful about the (bad) luck of facing an opponent like Zarya whose primary fire totally ignores deflect.
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That’s what you’re supposed to do.
It’s easy to act dumb but it achieves nothing.
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Yeah, that goes to an extent.
But you didn’t really get a result in your discussion.
Yes I did.
I established what a major mistake it is to try to give Genji 29 damage shuriken as it doesn’t change any damage thresholds.
That’s one of many results.
You cannot make results disappear by gaslighting me in pretending they don’t exist.
To expand on that the Shuriken damage could go the opposite way and go down to 25 damage per shuriken and Genji would hit all the same damage thresholds on 200HP and 225HP heroes.
This would punish those who just spam primary fire with Genji.
Then you could give a buff that rewards good play like a much narrower right click spread of 6 degrees so you can reasonably land all 3 shuriken in a headshot on squishy heroes.
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I mean that you haven’t really found a match, with the other discussion-partners.
That in particularand as it is in almost every discussion here, form a certain point this dicussions often end in slight insults, as seen here (I don’t mean you in particular)
What sort of “match” are you talking about and how would playing dumb help with that?
Why do I need a match to talk about a video game?
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Then you don’t really need to discuss your point, since you already got your opinion, since it seems that only your opinion counts.
I won’t reply anymore and don’t like these kinds of dicussions, where where your interlocutor labels everything as stupid.
I’m sorry for challenging your narrative when it doesn’t make sense from a Genji player perspective, I guess?
Since when is replying to someone a bad thing? isn’t it a good thing that someone tries to challenge you on a subject? if you are well educated on something shouldn’t you be happy that you have someone to convince, since you are speaking something that is perceived as true (at least from your standpoint), and if you are incorrect you should be happy that you are now more educated on a subject and understand it more deeply, I understand that arguments can be annoying at times and reach no real conclusion, but shutting it down before it starts is not the way.
I’m not literally quoting you, I’m showing you how it sounds to someone from the standpoint of a Genji player in this argument, it’s a sum-up of what you said and the changes you suggested in a much more simplified way, to perhaps show you that something with the suggests is unreasonable when you look at it deeper.
It does for 200hp heroes and 250hp heroes, that’s the vast majority of the heroes.
And it can even help with heroes who have 225hp to an extent, instead of needing 3 headshots and 3 more body shots to kill a target that has 225hp, now you will need 3 headshots and 2 body shots, when before the same combo dealt 224 dmg, but that’s overthinking it to an extent.
It does change it, I’m pretty sure that I have already shown you that it does before, but I may be wrong, here is a table of Genji combos which are commonly used -
As you can see, the commonly used 3HS + Melee combo will reach the 200hp threshold, and the Dash + 3HS + Melee combo that a lot of good Genji players use and trained on for a long time also passes the threshold of 250hp, and those are just the basic combos, you also have combos like 2HS + Double Melee which will be able to kill a Widowmaker (172dmg to 176dmg) for example.
You see, you clearly lack the knowledge about Genji to make such statements, there is nothing wrong about not understand something, but talking about something that you don’t fully understand while acting like you know everything about it just spreads misinformation…
Genji doesn’t have only one combo like you showed, although 3HS + Dash is widely used and is probably the most known combo it is by far not the only one, so it is irrelevant that it doesn’t pass the breakpoint on the one combo, as you have ones which do pass the breakpoint.
Barely, the dps increase is so minimal that it is irrelevant for the most part, sure you may need one less shuriken to kill a tank, but it isn’t a lot at all.
| Current | 29 dmg | |
|---|---|---|
| dps | 123.5 | 127.9 |
| stk (600hp) | 8 | 7 |
| ttk (600hp) | 4.86s | 4.69s |
It really has minimal effect, It’s really irrelevant if you ask me, if it really really bothers you we can increase the recovery time to 0.7s to make it 124.3 dps which is much closer to the value now, but still, this is something you will barely feel in-game if you were to spam.
Yes, they will…
I’d like a more in-depth explanation as to why they won’t, since I have given you the reasoning why they will already…
If you had one combo, sure, but even then Genji is not only based around combos, and making him generally weaker doesn’t make sense…
But Genji does have more combos, and decreasing the damage to the minimum needed for that one combo will screw them up, so no, it will not increase the skill ceiling, it would pretty much decrease it, as now you only have one useable combo…
You are just making other combos bad… this does decrease the skill needed to play the hero, less combos to learn means less to learn about a hero.
If you are facing a beam, you are countered, the counterplay would be to cancel deflect and shot the enemy or to disengage if you can, a pharah is not expected to fly in front of a hitscan and not shot him, why would Genji do the same thing and could get away with it? you need to play around counters, not in front of them, and you shouldn’t expect to still get something valuable for the interaction.
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No, not even my opinion counts.
This isn’t about opinions, this is about reasons, this is about understanding.
There is zero discussion value in people flatly gainsaying each other as they just state their contradictory opinions. All that matters is the reasons behind my opinion. That is the only way a discussion forum can work.
This is a transparent attempt to make it seem like that is what I’m objecting to when you cannot change the narrative, it’s clear what I objected to and you ignore that and make ap phoney apology to something you know isn’t wrong.
It’s such a cheap tactic.
You’re always up to some trick or another.
Another cheap trick, you know I didn’t say anything of the sort but asking WHY it’s the case is such a forced way of making out that’s my unreasonable stance.
Stop the tricks and have a fair discussion.
It doesn’t sound like that.
You just made something up about me.
No it isn’t, it’s a complete fabrication.
No it doesn’t. I’ve already explained.
That’s not relevant, you’re somehow landing more hits on a smaller target (the head) but less hits on a larger target (the body).
That’s not a representative combo.
That’s not representative for the following reasons:
- It’s unreasonable that you wouldn’t try to use dash for the combo
- it’s unreasonable that you’d fail to deal damage with dash due to generous hitbox
- If you’re so rushed that you’re attacking without dash then you’re likely not within quickmelee range
- There’s a good reason to not use a quick-melee finisher as you cannot interrupt the quick-melee animation with dash to escape.
No I’m not, I am aware of the importance of dash and why you don’t want to use quick-melee as a finisher.
Yes it does because Genji isn’t the only hero who is in a bad place right now.
Saying Genji should be buffed because he has a low pickrate but selecting a buff which nerfs other heroes who have an even lower pickrate than Genji is such hypocritical reasoning.
Genji is NOT the only hero that matters.
Spread reduced to 6 is a very significant buff. It’s the same spread as Widow’s hipfire but aseach shuriken has a hitbox it’s as if the spread was the same as Sombra’s primary fire.
Spread is measured differently for different heroes so don’t tell me “Widow’s hipfire spread is only 3, not 6!” I know what I am talking about.
9 degrees of spread rather than screws up combos.
Needing to remain within quickmelee range screws up combos that depend on quickmelee damage.
You’re making bad faith arguments, opposing a change by only emphasising the downsides.
Even in your own table you place huge emphasis on landing 3/3 shuriken as headshots yet no regard for something that massively caters to that.
Those other combos are inherently bad as they depend on neglecting dash to deal damage for no reason yet inexplicably going for quickmelee.
They depend on using quick-melee as a finisher which slows down you using dash to escape.
Why even activate it?
My point still stands that deflect is just a non-factor with beam attack heroes like Zarya.
It’s not a skill check, it’s just a reduction in options.
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Thread exists for the purpose of talking about Genji, with Genji in the title of said thread
BuT wHaT aBouT oThEr heRoeS
Please stop trying to hijack threads about a hero you don’t like
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Uhhh you see here my friend uhh… give genji uhhh… 29dmg shurikens and bug fixes and i’ll be happy 
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Not exclusively, other heroes are on topic as the topic is not simply “Genji” the topic is “Genji in OWL, what that says about the whole game”.
The topic is NOT “genji is the only hero that matters”.
The topic is “look at how performance of Genji in OWL proves something should be done about Genji”
But what should be done? Maybe something that proves you REALLY care about a hero underperforming in OWL and aren’t just using it as a pretext.
It’s not hijacked, this is STILL about Genji.
But this is how what would be appropriate for Genji as per his interaction with other heroes who are doing as badly as him in OWL.
It would achieve absolutely nothing except screw other heroes who are in the same bad place as Genji, exacerbating the very scenario that this thread was made in objection to.
You cannot demand that people care that Genji because he is struggling in OWL when demand no one should care about every other hero who is struggling in OWL. That’s hypocrisy.
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Why are you putting words in my mouth? when did i ever say this? the hell? all i said was give genji 29dmg shurikens and bug fixes and nothing more???
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Oh you are one of those “All Heroes Matter” people.
Why are you asking me why I did something I didn’t do?
You didn’t, it was obviously I who said what I said.
I know you did.
And I said it would achieve nothing more than screw other heroes who are in the same bad place as Genji.
That is MY words coming out of MY mouth… or, my keyboard to be precise.
Claiming “Genji matters because he’s doing bad in OWL” then saying “who cares a hero other than Genji is doing bad in OWL” is a blatant self-contradiction.
Either performance in OWL matters or it doesn’t.
It cannot ONLY matter for Genji.
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