Yes, double shield was an issue. It was bad. It wasnt fun. I didnt like it.
Is it Ok to redirect that issue though? Is it ok to make supports worse to make DPS better?
Are support complaints and feelings less valuable than DPS?
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I’m a DPS main and tbh I’m loving playing support on the Beta. Way more fun than OW1
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Nah you are straight up lying. DPS and Tank ques only reach below 7 minutes at 4AM EST time.
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I think I would know how long my queues were.
I think you’d say anything to be contrarian cause you are a troll.
Just trying to share my experience. It’s what the forums are for.
Not my issue if you are so dead set on complaining that you would let it take you into denial.
Keep trolling, it only makes you look worse and worse.
It was only a matter of time before you resorted to this sort of tactic as well.
What tactic lol
I stated what happened, you don’t believe it, and now you are calling people trolls.
It’ll be okay. It’s a video game. A video game where I had 3-4min queues on dps yesterday.
Trying to say concerns are complaints.
Literally no one believes you had 4 minute que times unless you were stacked with a support duo.
It will be. Making contrarians like you look bad is fun for me.
Sure is.
Weird that you feel the need to lie about a video game to try and make this troll a long con. Next you’ll say you got T500 by only using healing orb on zen and never doing anything else like a certain someone else in the forums said.
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Someone finally said it thank you. Everyone on all the threads is saying “WeLl YoU JuSt NeEd To PoSiTiOn”. Like dude I can’t position bc my team scatters like leaves in the wind as soon as they respawn. I try and keep a couple up but lose everyone else. It’s just frustrating.
Maybe it’s just a symptom of people not knowing the new maps or just not adapting to the loss of a tank, idk. But it’s frustrating as hell. I frequently have experienced being run on by DPS characters and there’s no one to help because they’re all off on their own.
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I don’t understand what’s so crazy about 4min queues
Relax lol
I don’t understand why you are lying.
Relax lol.
Just wanted to say that this was a pretty enjoyable thread. Lots of good points were made, and most people stayed on topic. Not too much insult slinging.
On topic, we’ll have to see how the dev team responds to the feedback on supports. Have a feeling it won’t be as good as many hope. Expecting a few number changes and even nerfs to some characters that have been mildly effective in the beta.
I’ll wait to see when supports actually get new stuff like tanks and dps, cos I’m pretty sure that’s a hefty factor atm. Or I’ll wait until at least the end of the beta.
But yes, I agree that if the queues will be bad, OW2 pvp/the switch to 5v5 will have been kinda pointless.
I did 10 games only which I know is not much for now but I am planning to do 10 games for each role. In my experience, I won 7 of those 10 games and in every game, even the losing ones, I was having complete fun. I think the role needs some touching up but I don’t actually think anyone needs an extensive rework like the tanks needed to make 5v5 work. Also just adding a new hero to the role would do some good and I am pretty sure that’s going to happen in the next beta phase.
Yeah, I hit a wall and I hit it hard. No matter how much time I spent beating my head against it, I couldn’t get better there.
However, I found a set of heroes where I could just keep getting better on, so I went there.
But yes, hours player != hours improved.
Yeah, that wasn’t targeted at Blizzard, this was more targeted at people saying “the supports just need to …” as if it was a game design solution.
The users don’t need to do a damn thing, they will do what they do, and good game design has to work with that 
I think I may make a suggestion thread, but I don’t really want to split concepts, when so many people have trouble with the first bit.
“You can’t change your users you can only change your design”.
Once people have that as something they understand, then maybe the second part of the conversation will be useful.
But yes, I didn’t give suggestions, because I didn’t want to derail the “what game design is” conversation.
Yeah, the ones where people leave are more legit than the ones where they stay.
The Tank complaints were most legit. They complained, and then they left at a higher percent rate than the other queues, causing so many problems the queues needed to be rebuilt.
So, their complaints were the most legit from a game design point of view.
indeed, I expect it will actually be pretty extreme, and then they will have to then backtrack.
The reason for that, is if you go past your mark, it is usually a lot easier to see where you should land.
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The best buff the support role could get would be adding back a second tank.
The second best would be giving Brig back her stun, even if it’s weakened.
Support isn’t fun [for a subgroup of people] in 2.0 because 1) doing your job as pretty much anyone but Ana or Lucio feels unimpactful, and 2) there’s so much less peel.
There are support players who will relearn the game and get better at it. There are support players who will like the new game they’ve been forced to learn. Importantly, though, there will be a big chunk of support players who will leave either the role or the game because the role is no longer enjoyable to them. As OP said, we can talk about out opinions on the role and whether it’s good or balanced or fun, but none of those opinions mater if the support population is low enough to bottleneck the other queues.
This is just the initial beta, so changes may come that bring more players through the support queue. From the current perspective, it looks like those changes will have to be extreme. We’ll see.
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maybe they should go 4v4 and make 1-2-1 (1 tank, 2 dps, 1 support), addressing the support problem the same way they have addressed the tank problem. Seems fair, they should alienate all casuals, and just cater to “serious” dps players.
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In fairness, the tank role is overall looking pretty good…if you like the reworked Orisa and Doom, or are a Rein main. Otherwise, I agree it’s at the expense of the tank role…the fact they didn’t even really revert all the progressive changes that made multiple tanks (such as sigma and ball) clunky and their solution for Winston was that awful alt-fire…I hope they go back to the drawing board on those, just as they should on a bunch of DPS and almost the entire support category.
Winston’s alt fire would be great if it did more damage. Don’t @ me. I would easily 360 butt stomp those noobs if my #railgun did mucho damagio.
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