That does not make any sense. Comp is a system of elements. Heroes are elements of this system. If some comp is unbalanced it means that it contains unbalanced heroes. When you balance heroes you also balance comps they are parts of.
Balance problems should be solved by balancing methods only. Unnatural restrictions and limits do not fix problems, they just cover them.
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If every hero fell in the same category, your argument would be ok; but since itās not, then your argument is not really valid.
The best way to balance this game is if you realize that every team should have a mix of tanks, dps and support.
For you its ok to not use one of these elements. Missing one of these elements (dps) you propose nerfing a hero of other category (support, i guess). Sadly, it doesnāt work like that, my friend.
If Blizz makes it so that its mandatory to at least have one hero of each category, with a max of 2 supports (as OP mentioned) you would have healthy and balanced matches.
The game is not meant to have 6 tank comps, or 6 dps comps, for example. The same can be said for 3 tank - 3 support comps
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Tanks in particular feel pretty weak in base 2-2-2 comps and supports are not particularly powerful either in those comps. Stopping Goats with balance means buffing DPS to insane levels or nerfing tanks and supports. This problem canāt be solved with balance. Role stacking is the issue and only by addressing that will we hopefully see more 2-2-2 comps while still having the option of more diverse comps.
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The only thing this doesnāt address is insta-locking and role tricking. Truthfully, we wont see this change until Blizzard adds some sort of promotion for flexing like quests or an Exp/SR multiplier for playing a different role each game.
Anyone who says they want freedom to run 5 tanks and a Lucio for example is just BSāing. If they want to goof off then go to no limits. I want my games to have more structure. If only we could get this and something to promote flexing!
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We are kindred spirits, my friend.
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Thatās the only reason I mostly (basically only) play with LFG.
The LFG doesnāt really work for me. Iām in masters and the best players I find in LFG are platinum. Whatās worse is everyone role locks LFG. If someone quits mid game in a 6 stack you have to finish the game 5 vs 6. LFG is not that good in my opinion.
LFG is a good feature but isnāt not omplete. Right now itās more or less to help players below diamond find groups and thatās about it.
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I agree. Let me tell you that I use it for QP only, not for comp.
I use it for QP too and my game quality didnāt improve. I really donāt enjoy OW anymore. The matchmaking is awful and the community is massively selfish and toxicā¦
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This makes no sense. I donāt even get what categories you are talking about and how it is connected to our discussion.
Devs think otherwise.
I have said that nerfing is only one of the ways to fix this problem. For example, Dive problem was solved without nerfing Dive heroes - it was solved with addition of new hero. Goats problem can be solved without nerfing Brig - you can simply buff heroes that counter Goats. Or add a new one.
Only in your opinion. In my opinion addition of mandatory limits is a cheap and lazy design that solves no problems at all, only guts already not very diverse meta.
With proper balancing Goats could be turned in viable, but not mandatory option that would contribute to meta diversity. OP simply suggest to remove it completely, which is cannot be healthy by definition because it contradicts to the whole point of devs job to add new heroes to create more different comps and increase meta diversity to prevent this game to became stale and boring. OP suggest to amputate the whole limb because of single scratch that can be easily cured with some medicine.
Who said that? Devs? Nope. They said that you can play whatever you want and how you want. That is how this game is meant to be. You want to plat 6 dps - you can. Will it work? Probably not. But you can if you want. You have that freedom. Devs gave you that freedom because this contributes to diversity of gameplay.
If you think that unnecessary limitation and restrictions are healthy for the game and better than simple balancing - then I am really glad that you are not in the dev team because otherwise this game would be dead on arrival.
That just not true at all. We have played this game for years before Brig addition and invention of Goats with 2-2-2 and tanks and supports were powerful. Goats is powerful not because it magically makes tanks and support stronger. It just contains more tanks and supports that makes this comp much more durable. Thats it.
Not necessarily. It can be done via buffing tanks that are not part of Goats (Hog, Hammon, Orisa). It can be done via buffing supports that are not part of Goats (Zen, Ana). It can be done with introduction of new hero, may be a new tank or support. We played Dive versus Dive meta for more than half of year and it was as problematic as Goats now. People hated it even more because it forced players to play mirror matches over and over again. How it was solved? By simple addition of new hero so Dive have a counter and turned from mandatory comp to an optional comp which is viable even nowadays.
It can be. And it will be. Because devs are smarter than regular player, they know that balance problems should be solved by balancing. Players are ignorant and infantile in most cases. They donāt want this game to be balanced, all they want is to make everything they like better and completely remove or gut everything they dislike.
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Tankā¦ Damageā¦ Supportā¦
Come onā¦
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That freedom you are so happy about is what leads to GOATS and other dumb metas people loathe.
Well, if you want to be square about the situation, be my guest. OP has the best idea this forum has produced in a while and I stand by it.
No need to keep arguing with you.
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It is sad that you just ignored all my arguments because you canāt prove them to be wrong. But okay. Just get over that this ābest ideaā will never be imlemented to the game for obvious reasons.
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its called :
- LFG, where you can select what roles you either want to play with or play as ā¦
- group up with friends
- communicate
forcing, even if slightly, will never work. forcing a dps into tank or support will only get that person to play as dps moira, or dps rein; or he goes toxic and doesnt do anything if he just doesnt leave outright ā¦
personally, i feel that communication is the key here. communicate with your team on what everyone feels is needed and compromises can be made ā¦ and even if you lose, you probably didnt lose because some toxic sludge didnt throw.
the problem with communication is the already present toxicity in this community. we have all learned to stay out of mic chat due to the amount of trolls, vulgarity, racism, sexism, music spam, voice spam ā¦ hence no one wants to talk to each other on the fear that theyre going to get ridiculed for being 16 and squeaky voiced. OR the toxic widow on a 5 round losing streak just screaming at her team to do better so they can carry her. My favorite was always the troll who falsely talked with an accent while spamming racist music into the channel ā¦
the best thing to do, is play with friends youve already made. Yes, its harder to do with everyone having schedules and lives and whatnot ā¦ but that is really the only solution.
yes it will workā¦
make an arcade mode with role-q ā¦ no one is being forced to anything. if you want to play it, play itā¦ if you want to enjoy 5dps instalocks in quickplay, go for it.
blizz can give players more optionsā¦ and LFG has many flaws. its not a solution and a failure for many people who were actually hyped about it.
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I like this. It adds more flexibility than a role queue. That said, I would implement a combined cap on Supports and Tanks where you can choose no more than 3 of either one, or 5 total. Meaning you could run 3 supports, 2 tanks, or 2 supports, 3 tanks, but you could not run 3 supports, 3 tanks. Stacked healing is only really a problem when you can combine it with stacked barriers and giant health pools; otherwise, stacked healing really doesnāt create too many problems.
Only problems I foresee are people just stalling in hero selection such as if, for example, three people already locked support, and le mad skillz Widowmaker main wants to miss shots instead of heal, so they just quit or donāt pick or throw. Not that itās terribly different from the game now, but even so
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Agree. This is the fundamental of this game.
LOL, noā¦ it wont. all this will get is an increase in toxicity and leavers.
an arcade mode where people queue up with the intention to play a specific role will increase toxicity and leavers.
big argumentation here.
We can stay arguing foreverā¦ your argumentsā¦ my argumentsā¦ itās all the same as long you are not willing to process and try to understand the views of the people that advocate for new systems, like the one proposed by the OP.
Do I need to write a wall of text to prove you wrong? No. I canāt prove you wrong the same way you cannot āproveā you are right.
You just read the posts made by other people just to argue and make a comback, not to understand. Thatās sad.
And I stand by what I say: You are all for the āfreedomā the Devs gave you? Right, thatās why the game is so bad at the moment. Thatās exactly why people like us propose alternatives, because we believe this game can be fun and enjoyable again.
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