💡 Role Queue Alternative

[Terranguard-11978]

It’s LFG

an alternative to role queue I mean.

[Lumin-1385]

Playing a support that can do damage is not using the support wrong. And if they don’t heal, they can go with the excuse of “I don’t know how to heal, I only know how to play DPS,

No, this isn’t true. You have to actively try not to heal with Ana because you have to take positions where you don’t shoot through your team. Healing poorly and not healing are 2 different things. If they flat don’t heal, that’s reportable.

[Finity-21681]

Yes, it would. But this also assumes you aren’t willing to cooperate with each other. Cooperation wins games. We want to encourage teamwork and swapping. Insta-locking is bad no matter what system we are using.

Yes, but that renders your solution pointless and wouldn’t teach players about teamwork at all. A solution to that however would be randomized first pick-turns.

I don’t think an all tanks comp is viable. An all DPS comp is viable in quick play or bronze, but not Masters or GM. And ironically, the best of these would be an all healer comp. That can actually be quite scary surprisingly.

Who’s to say what comp is viable at any given time? I think you’re too caught up on what meta should be enforced, which I think is the wrong way to go. Players should be encouraged to play whatever they think is most benificial to the team, no matter what role it is.
Also, is going all DPS a common issue in Masters/GM? Most of them consists of players with good hero pools who know what to counter-pick to in any given situation or are insanly good one-tricks. Non of them really need this kind of restriction.

I don’t think this matters. In high level play, 2/2/2 is played 51% of the time even with Goats being “meta”. Before Goats, it was 81% of the time. In most odd comps, the role that gets left out is actually DPS. There are 16 DPS, so at least 1 of them is going to be viable at any time right? There has never been a meta comp with fewer than 2 tanks or 1 support.

I’m sorry but percentages of certain picks bore me to death and mean absolutely nothing in my games, and shouldn’t matter in anyone else’s game either. Personally, what should matter is how well you’re able to read how the enemy is playing and devise a strat around that with your team. It can be as simple as having some of your teammates dive a certain enemy or going a certain path.

Almost everyone… maybe a few people like it. But most people hate it. More people despise Goats than Dive which I didn’t think was possible.

I mean, to each their own, there will always be people who will dislike certain types of comps. “Almost everyone” can hate anything really.

[Pachanga-1668]

Bumping this because the community needs to give more attention to this post.

[GreyFalcon-11737]

This doesn’t solve Goats though. You need a system like Lumin’s. You need a min of 2 tanks, 1 DPS and 1 healer to have a solid base comp. With a max of 3 DPS, 3 tanks and 2 supports we keep tank metas from getting out of control. We’d still have triple DPS with solo heal but with two tanks that’s somewhat workable.

I don’t want them to “Solve GOATs” with hero limits. (Or role queue).

Especially since if they nerf Brig enough, then GOATs wouldn’t be a problem for at least 90% of players (I.e. Platinum and below).

And hero bans for Masters and above would solve the remaining issues of current and future metacomps being too strong.

Diamond, dunno, that is negotiable.

[Lumin-1385]

It’s not just Goats really, this solves virtually every bad comp people have complained about since the start of the game. Some exceptions of course, but it really does resolve a lot of common complaints.

[GreyFalcon-11737]

I don’t think the devs want to force playstyles with limits, beyond certain minimums that would only really apply to low tier.

[Tailslol-2280]

my answer? propose an alternative after seeing if role queue is live…
if it work better than solo it will be already good.
but im guessing it will be like the group select, youll can select a flex role in a group.

[Pachanga-1668]

Yes yes yes. It prevents “too much healing”, it prevents “barrier watch”, it prevents GOATS. It won’t save you from Dive, Pirate Ship or regular deathball, but those comps already have their own counters without requiring a mirror comp.

[Lumin-1385]

They’ve started giving hints in interviews that they are in fact considering role queue. I think if there isn’t a different solution put in place, it is likely inevitable that it happens. I’m offering an alternative to that that I think more people would like than role queue. Me personally, I’d be happy as a clam with role queue, but I think this would be appealing to a larger group than role queue.

Consider this. There are a lot of ideas popping up. Role queue. Solo queue only mode. Hero bans. etc. I think I’m the only one I’ve seen propose hero role limits vs signing up for a role, but maybe I’m wrong on that. And they just implemented LFG and were talking about other systems (possibly guilds?).

The thing that those all have in common is they recognize the current system is broken. So, the current process of getting into a game is not working for a lot of people. Whether it isn’t working because a silver player can’t get enough tanks/healers in their games or a Masters player is stuck playing Goats every game. Regardless, there’s issues.

In a lot of cases, buffs and nerfs are not the right solutions. But they are the only tools the devs have. They need other tools to vary playstyle and emphasize a more standard play experience.

[GreyFalcon-11737]

Well, like I said above, I genuinely like this idea, and think it would be fantastic for making sure that low tier and quickplay have their minimum standards met.

But that would be:
3max DPS
1min Tank
1min Healer

Heck, I don’t even know if the 1min Tank would be needed. (Since 3x heal would make everybody pretty tanky, and Mei/Brig are pretty tanky).

[Shnobz-2604]

It would eliminate many of the least fun compositions (Goats, 4 DPS, quad tank, etc).

I have fun while playing goats. The system should not force number of heroes per role. Players should be able to play whatever comp they want, even if it is a 6 dps comp.

[Pachanga-1668]

But that’s highly “unbalanced”. Not from an individial hero perspective, but the comps themselves.

[Rift-11388]

If they invent a role queue I assume that you couldn’t be held to that role type. Its simply fulfilling the queue you prefer with like minded people that suit the role they chose. There wouldn’t be any limit on the hero you could actually choose.

[Lumin-1385]

I’m pretty sure any role queue would have some form of restrictions around it. There wouldn’t be much point to a role queue if you wanted to play 6 healers, which can be surprisingly effective mostly because nobody expects it. It’s actually more effective than 6 DPS. But should either really be a thing?

[Rift-11388]

It wouldn’t make sense to have restrictions with the few tank and support characters we have. I assume if they implement it then it would be mandatory and if so they couldn’t possibly place restrictions on it as it would destroy diverse comps. The role queue would be to place you with a team that most suits their role.

I dont see absolute restrictions being a smart choice if they go that route.

[Aster-2434]

And i still wait to play with 3 supports or goats… not with 3 dps most of time.
Today my friend took role of solo support in game, when i picked tank, we swiched for next games so he play dps and i healer, realy its so hard to find healer players for me, even other team i see having problem with that, or just mercy player walking next to our winston just to get melted.

[Lumin-1385]

It wouldn’t make sense to have restrictions with the few tank and support characters we have.

I don’t follow. I’ve seen this argument as one against hero bans, but not for trying to standardize around something like 2/2/2 or in my case just forcing at least 1 of each role and no more than 3 of any role kinda system.

Can you maybe explain how having 7 tanks and forcing you to have 2 tanks is bad since people right now are frequently playing 3 tanks anyway? Or 6 healers just making sure you have at least 1 when people are commonly playing 3?

[Shnobz-2604]

Not an argument at all. If some hero is unbalanced - you don’t ban it, you balance it.
If some comp is unbalanced - you don’t ban it, you balance it.
Banning unbalanced part of the game is not a solution and does not make the game healthier. If some comp is clearly dominating you can balance it via nerfing its core hero(es), buffing its counters or adding a new one. Before goats became a thing there was a Dive versus Dive meta, which was the most hated, boring and stupid meta of all time. Devs added Brig and Dive stopped being mandatory to play - it became just an option.
The same could be done with Goats. Just add a new very durable, immobile, but high AoE damage tank with flamethrower that applies DoT that mathematically reduces enemies HPS received, and with ability to create walls of fire for zone control and area denial. Boom - problem solved.

[Pachanga-1668]

We disagree then. Balancing comps by nerfing heroes, is in my opinion unhealthy. I prefer to do it the other way around. That’s why I think Lumin’s idea is brilliant.

It’s a shame you don’t like it.