These people that are all for freedom of choice must not play quickplay or maybe only in groups. As a solo player, overwatch not fun when your team is mostly unbalanced a majority of your matches. A lot of those matches end up being a waste of time because itās just a steam roll for the side with the better comp.
Overwatch needs structure. This is a team based game played with strangers. People donāt currently have any incentive to make good comps. They would rather lose one tricking then to branch out to other roles and the Comp ranking system rewards players for doing so.
I sometimes wonder if people even realize that overwatch has a switching mechanic and heros have counters, but I digress.
I agree with the OP with role limits. I also thinks itās one of the best suggestions Iāve seen on the forums. I prey something similar is adopted to the game.
If this is the only solution then I might as well quit.
I believe in communication. Unfortunately, it doesnāt solve this at all. People wonāt join team chat. People wonāt swap. Iāve been in games where all 5 of my teammates have picked DPS and me asking if I could get one of them to switch, politely, was met with a toxic attitude towards me the remainder of the game.
This is why thereās some flexibility to allow people to pick roles they are comfortable on. But even without this system, you have a problem if you have nobody that plays a tank on your team or a healer. Someone still needs to give it a go unless you like losing. The problem doesnāt go away, you just have a terrible game.
That would work to a point. The point being if the group was otherwise random people that āstayed as teamā previously.
For people on the friends list? Easy work around. Weād use the Blizzard Launcher voice chat, stay in group chat that way, and disable Team Chat if we felt so inclined. The Blizzard Launcher voice chat works great. Weāve already used it in HoTS since their voice chat is hit-or-miss, and use it often in WoW.
What prevents you from playing via LFG even if you are a solo player?
I am a solo player, I have no friends to play together. I just join LFG to find more structured group.
Random groups, no matter if they are in QP or Competitive, will stay random even with restrictions suggested by OP. People will play whatever they want, but limits will create even more toxicity because people will fight for role slots.
You cannot force people to play whatever they dont want to play via stupid and pointless limits. If you implement, for example, 3 DPS maximum limit, and then join the game with 5 DPS onetricks then it will probably end up with two of them trolling because they cannot play whatever they want.
If you want to play in more balanced groups - go LFG. Only players can force or encourage other players to play whatever is better for team and comp, and it can be done only BEFORE the game is started. You want to play 2-2-2 - devs gave you all tools to find players that will fit into 2-2-2.
QP and random comp will be random and not fun forever. Even if you force 2-2-2 there then people who canāt take slot they want will just troll and throw.
OPās suggestion is not āthe bestā. It is not even a good one. It is terrible. Simply because it literally solves no problem, but creates a lot of new ones.
Time honestly. Sometimes you just want to queue for just one game and donāt really have time to play for a long time. Finding a group on top of that, itās going to add time, time you may not have that night.
See the problem is even if you donāt implement the system and end up in a game with 5 DPS one-tricks, if they all go DPS it is no better than them trolling. They are still throwing because a 5 DPS comp is terrible. My game is ruined in that scenario too. So, my idea doesnāt make it any worse. At least we have a viable team comp. Because I honestly give up if 5 people go DPS anyway. I play the game just to get it over with at that point.
If you donāt think it can ever be fun, then by all means let us implement an idea that will make it more fun for us. You can still use LFG. Heck, we can even exempt LFG from the restriction.
My idea does not force 2-2-2 which is part of the beauty of it. It just forces someone to actually play a tank and healer which isnāt so bad. You need them anyway. Itās no fun if NOBODY plays them. It really isnāt. Not even for the DPS because if nobody tanks or heals then the DPS canāt do their job correctly. Somebody has to in every comp anyway unless you like to lose.
But consider this too. It forces you to have a DPS. In some levels of the game right now, the meta comp literally includes nobody from the largest category in the game. This kind of a move is actually pro-DPS. It forces you to include DPS. The 5 DPS thing is a problem in quick play and low level ranked, but in high level ranked you have the opposite problem where DPS players are never allowed to play DPS. At least this way someone gets to without the rest of the team throwing.
It makes it worse. You need to understand the difference between when people play 5 dps, but they do so because they want to do so and it ends up badly because 5 dps comp is barely viable, and when people are forced to play something they donāt want to play and it ends up badly because they start trolling and throwing intentionally.
Some games are bad because players want to have fun and do what they want for good, but it does not work. Some games are bad because players are not allowed to do what they want to have fun and because of that they start doing something bad to prevent the whole team having fun.
Yes,5DPS players on 5 DPS heroes is barely viable comp. But if all 5 DPS players are trying their best because they play DPS heroes the want and are having fun - it would be much better than 3 DPS player playing DPS heroes and having fun< while other 2 DPS players playing 2 tanks and intentionally throwing by, for example, constantly shifting with Rein into enemy team and feeding them with ult charge.
When players play whatever they want is always better, even if it does not work well, rather than they are forced to play whatever they donāt want to play and donāt know how to play and they start to intentionally throw and troll because of that.
You want to apply restriction for everyone because you in particular dislike comps like 3-3, but you want to do so for environment where could be players who like playing something like 3-3 and you force them to not to do what they want.
If you want more restrictions - create custom game with your own rules and have fun playing the game in the way you enjoy it. Just stop saying that your restrictions and limits are good for everyone. Because they are not.
It is also not fun for DPS player to be forced to play tank or support because they donāt want to do so, they donāt know how to do so properly and they will not have fun while doing so.
People should play whatever they want to play because in that case they are at least know how to play it and could potentially try their best. Otherwise, for example, a dedicated Genji main will have literally zero motivation to even try to play good if he is forced to play Rein, for example, which he never played before and never wanted it.
Your suggestion solves no problems, but ruins comp diversity that devs are trying to build over time and also encourages even more toxicity withing playerbase.
At least I can report you for trolling or throwing intentionally. 5 DPS shouldnāt be a thing. If they go 5 DPS it ruins my game just the same. And if there wasnāt a leaver penalty the second the 4th DPS pick happened Iād just bolt. Iām not going to throw, but I will be a bit demoralized and wonāt be giving it 100%. Iāll be in casual mode and probably just go Mei or Roadhog and tell them to get their own healer.
Honestly, as a tank main, Iām OK with it. I donāt play DPS hardly ever. So, 3/3 isnāt a problem for me. I just donāt think itās in any way shape or form healthy for the game. Itās not something that SHOULD exist. Every role should be played in every game.
I shouldnāt have to create a custom game just to play the game the way it is intended to be played. 5 DPS or 3/3 comps are not how Overwatch is supposed to be. Itās some twisted form of the game.
Everyone SHOULD know how to play at least 2 of the roles if not all 3. I specialize in one role, but I CAN play at least one hero from each role if necessary. If you really need a healer I can. If you need a DPS, I can. Iām going to perform best at tank, but I can do the others reasonably OK if I pick the right hero. Now, if you tell me to play Pharah, Iām going to suck. But if you let me pick the DPS, then I can pick from my hero pool.
Everyone should have some limited ability to flex.
Just the opposite. It increases comp diversity. I know restrictions and diversity seem like an oxymoron, but this would actually encourage more diverse hero pools and more diverse comps in my opinion. And honestly, I think it would bring less toxicity. I know we disagree on that, but I firmly believe that I am right about that. Thereās only one way to know for sure though and that is to try it.
Frankly, what Iād like to see tried out more is a reward system for players and give them the ability to try other roles. Again, I know I never DPS because itās always instalocked, and every once in a while I would like the ability to do that, because I know I can DPS decently at times but I never get the chance, unless I do what others do and insta lock, but that leads to toxicity. Rather then focus on the negatives here, my Idea would be the following:
The game keeps track of your roles you play in a game, and in specifics, the role that you started a match in. Youād have to have a minimum of time in that role of course. These roles are the basic roles in question: Damage, Tank, and Support.
For each game, you earn a set amount of āpointsā for playing that role, thatās specific to the class type. So if I played Dāva, Iām scored a certain amount of points in my Tank role.
Before a game starts up, I can bid a certain amount of points. If I bid a certain amount of points using the tank role for example, the game looks at who bid the most, and letās that player choose first for anything other then that role. So for example, letās say a game starts, and the bids are:
Player 1: bids 3 tank points, typically plays a lot of classes
Player 2: bids nothing, Hanzo main
Player 3: bids 18 support points, Mercy Main
Player 4: bids 1 DPS point, Tracer Main
Player 5: bids nothing, Always fills
Player 6: bids 5 tank points, Plays Winston Main
In this case, player three wins the first role. He gets a small amount of time when he first enters to choose his role, and he canāt choose support. But, he can choose Tank or DPS. Letās say he chooses DPS, specifically Hanzo.
Then the game allows player 6 to choose, as they are next in line. They choose support, specifcally Ana.
Now please note: I would only allow two players to bid at a time on this. After the first 2, the next 4 would be allowed to choose their characters.
What this would do is the following:
Many of the problems that develop is the āfirstā mentality. The I locked in first argument. This would allow a player to be first by earning it in playing other classes. If it was left to a scramble, Player 3 may never get to play Hanzo considering player 2 would instantly lock it in. This way, he has a chance to play a hero that he wants.
Now, this doesnāt guarentee anything gameplay wise. The thing is, Player 2 could be a dick and choose DPS even if he choose last, or leave the game. But itād put him in the spotlight more then anything: heās the one who decided not to play with the team. And unlike other situations, itād allow for the players who HAVE played for the team more often a little bit of leverage: they bet points based on other matches in question, they put their time in to ādeserveā that spot per say. That will go a long way to resolving the pointing of fingers.
Does this fix all the problems? Heavens no, but if weāre considering a role queue alternative thatās still flexible for class loadouts, that would be the best option in my mind.
I wouldnāt be against something like this. I think Iām more interested in quests. Like, play 3 games as a tank get a lootbox. Or play 10 games as a support in competitive and get 100 cp points or something. The quests would rotate and change weekly and not be the same for each person to avoid everyone trying to complete the same exact quest at the same time.
Who said that? Who determines how the game supposed to be and how it should not? You? Nope. Devs decide. And they decided to give players enough freedom to play whatever they want and how the want. 3-3 comp was created by players. and is played by players. And there was a time when 4tanks/2supports was played as well.
They should not. It would be better if they could play more than 1 role because it makes them more flexible, but they should not be forced to do so. If a player want to play only one role and never touch other roles - he has all rights to do so.
Only in your opinion. A pretty delusional opinion, because you literally suggest to increase diversity via removal of certain comps. You suggest to create more comps with makings less comps.
You should understand that 3-3 like comps is a balance problem, not system problem. And balance problems should be solved and fixed by balancing methods.
There was a time when we played only Dive comp for 8 months. Dive was so powerful so the only way to counter was to play Dive too. It was the worst meta of endless mirror matches. People hated it. Pro players hated it. Everyone hated it. And devs fixed it. How? With removal of Dive comp? With applying limit to 1 dive tank per team? OF course not. They solved it with balance - they created a counter for Dive. They turned mandatory comp into optional comp by adding another option. The same should be done with Goats. It should not be mandatory comp, but it should stay as an option. Because meta diversity means more options, not less options. And I am sure devs are trying to solve it. They already trying to balance Brig and I am 100% sure that the next hero will counter Goats and could not be a part of it.
They are seriously considering a role queue though. I predict that unless some other system comes through first, a role queue is inevitable. Would you rather have that or what Iām proposing. Some restriction is coming, of that I am virtually certain.
People made the exact same arguments against the 1 hero limit and it has been unarguably good for the game. Some comp restriction would be a big shift, but it would be good for the game overall.
Yes, they are considering it. And it takes so long because they want to implement it in the way that will not favor or force any type of comp. They already stated several times that they do not want to force players to play 2-2-2 or any other type of comp. If they will not find a way to do so - they will not do a role queue.
No limit was a mistake from the beginning and never was healthy and never worked well. It was an obvious mistake because it makes zero sense gameplay wise and would be a design hell in terms of balancing. It was early days of OW and devs were experimenting. They quickly realized that it does not work so they solved it. No-limit never worked so they changed the game into state which we are playing right now. And it works well for almost 3 years. That was a good change, while your suggestion is not. It simply not needed at all, because current problems could be solved by more delicate balance methods rather than brutal amputation that you suggest.
If you want to play gutted game - play it in custom game with other players who love to play gutted game. Donāt force everyone to play in the way you like because there are a lot of people who want to play differently.
No limits is not a mistake as much as it being the original form of the game that some people do not enjoy.
VIDEO GAME first. Job second. Unless youāre an Owl player, sucks to be you.
Weāre just going to have to agree to disagree. Something will eventually come along that limits the types of comps you can play whether it is role queue or something else. Of this much Iām confident. Itās just a matter of what it looks like. The devil is in the details.
This. We do need more healers and more tanks, but because of how large health pools interact with lots of healing, the DPS role takes a bit of a back seat. But if you just nerf tanks or healers to combat that then in a 2/2/2 they start to feel weak.
Itās really hard to balance stacking of a trait vs balancing when the picks are more even, maybe impossible actually. And itās also really hard to balance something for both gold and top 500.
Making a role limit system helps with overall balance.
If Blizzard opts to just nerf tanks and support then I think Iāll quit Overwatch. That would be ignoring the core issue and show that the devs have no clue what theyāre doing
We need a role limit system for the health of the game and the for the sake of quality balance for all the roles.
This. I really fear right now based on the forum posts an overall nerf to tanks or supports or maybe both as a class. In 3/3 comps they are very strong. But in 4/1/1 or 2/2/2 or 3/2/1 they are not. Nerfing them would stop Goats but them make them useless outside of Goats.
The Brigitte nerfs are really harsh but I donāt think itās going to stop Goats just yet. I am expecting the next PTR to have nerfs for at least: Rein, Zarya, D.Va, Moira, Zen and Brigitte.
Goats didnāt get solved with these nerfs and with the blind rage of the community justifying them Blizzard will continue to make poor balance decisions. Playing anything but DPS going forward is going to suck.