This appears (to me) to make it clear that the “new” rework concept is simply a relabeling of revert concept
Same old stuff in a brand new box
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Which seems like a rather clear goal and rather easy to achieve. Unlike #ReworkMercy since there is no coherent idea.
So as I said:
Basing a movement of a subjective feeling will never work, because what’s fun for on will not be fun for another.
So instead of you making another post spamming this thread about the movement, maybe put time into getting that movement together? Provide a coherent idea, that all movement participants agree on. Then you can move forward and Blizzard actually has a reason to consider it.
Now it’s just a group of players screaming “We want changes” and if you ask what they want, you get a lot of different answers.
Definitly coincidence, unless they had a timemachine. Blizzard announced changes to Brigitte at Blizzcon. #DeleteBrig originated after Blizzcon.
Then start beeing constructive and get an idea together with your group and stop spamming the same line over and over and over again.
It’s fine you want changes because you’re unhappy, but screaming “We want changes!” isn’t going to get you anywhere, especially when Blizzard says they are happy with current Mercy.
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Deleting a hero is “easy to achieve?” 
Apologies, but I’m going to have to politely disagree with that. What heroes in this game were deleted? Brig still exists in this game, does she not? 
~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance.
xavvypls 
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Is only part of his post you are going to address?
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Any thoughts ?
Yup I think you should give us some rest.
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Great post, and added to Blizzards stance - there are a large number of us who would prefer that there be no further changes to Mercy
(although I did make a proposal that might make a few additional people a little more happy: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/overwatch/t/the-one-change-to-mercy-that-i-think-would-create-the-smallest-unhappiness)
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While I will never agree that deleting a hero is a good idea, it is factually easy because any hero can be disabled quickly and easily - just as new heroes are usually disabled in Comp for a few weeks after initial release - and a disabled hero is in essence deleted, as said hero cannot be selected
Changing Mercy to satisfy the large group that wants her changed isnt merely difficult, it is in fact impossible, because there is no one agreed-upon set of changes, and in fact some of the ideas are mutually exclusive
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Well he said she was fine before, then they did that “bug fix” that was there since launch (I’m calling it a nerf because again it’s been there since launch)
Then he said that again, and then they nerfed her healing back to 50hps.
So forgive me if I don’t believe Mr. “We’re working on Top Secret Stuff x3”-Kaplan when he says a hero is fine.
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Unfortunately I doubt much will change at the moment even with all what’s starting to happen. First we’ve got Christmas holidays in the way, then more preparation work for OWL I imagine 
. However, if the attention and pressure keeps on building then eventually we can only hope for a change that both sides will think is reasonably fair (e.g. those who dislike her current iteration and want her changed, and those who, apparently, like her current iteration but don’t want her changed any longer).
Ironic really, they said she’s fine numerous times and then ended up nerfing her again. I don’t think they really know at the end of the day, and I can’t say I’m too surprised given how busted her rework was from the start with plenty of concerns, and is still somewhat busted today (in the opposite sense that’s she’s perhaps now balanced but highly team reliant, bland and lacks potential impact, ‘on fire’ alone is a fairly good indicator).
That’s a subjective opinion, we don’t have exact figures on what side of the debate is a majority, if either side is even really a majority. (quote appeared to happen incorrectly, but it was in response to a post somewhere above mine)
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Well… That is an opinion you can argue. But I’m not sure if you are correct there.
People agree that Mercy needs more impact, agency, reward, engagement, and overall, needs to be fun to play. All of these ideas are ones I believe everyone in the movement agrees with to some extent.
Well… No… I’m afraid that that’s untrue. Looking at history of patches and hero fixes, many heroes were changed due to subjective feelings. The whole “Mass Rez is unfun to play against” thing would have never existed without said feelings towards it right? Also Sombra getting her hack speed nerfs in the past, and even Doomfist’s current nerfs have literally been based on how unfun it was to play against. All feelings.
This comment was cute, because it assumes that I haven’t been speaking outside of the forums and people haven’t been having discussions about the hero. I would inform you, that underestimating something or someone, and their ability to gather thoughts, ideas, and find solutions, is usually a risky venture. But sure, let’s assume that I only exist on these forums.
Well, that goes for any movement right? The goal is to come up with one cohesive idea. The movement is actually still quite new. I’d say give it some time. I’m sure there are going to be a central agreement on something soon enough. Afterall, with the way this GOATs meta is going, the dropping interest in the pro-scene, the longer wait for content, and the Power Creep and Ultimate spam dominating in this game. I’m pretty confident that right now, we have nothing but time to spare.
You can argue, but the changes at the time didn’t go live until after said movement was established. They could have simply gone back on their nerfs, or atleast soften the blow to come to some sort of compromise. They didn’t, so I’m not too sure about that there. But either way, brig is still in the game, despite the movement’s goal of trying to delete her, and now people are saying that she actually is making GOATS worse (due to more healing) so I suppose said movement has failed it’s purpose then, hasn’t it? Now that I think of it, maybe they should’ve used that time machine after all.
This seems to be a projection. I’m not sure where this is coming from. This is the first thread I’ve made that asks for input from the devs about the movement. Your definition of spam, probably needs some work there.
Sorry, I’m going to have to politely disagree with you there. The movement as a whole is powered by people who want changes with Mercy and are unhappy with her current state. I am confident that continuing the discussion on Mercy and how her impact needs to be improved, such changes will eventually come for the hero in a big way.
And there’s nothing wrong with those doubts. I think that people are honestly just tired of how Mercy is right now, and want to her to be fun to play again. Some people may like her currently of course, but I’m sure that a lot of people from all different ranks and backgrounds do not. And I agree with you on the hope for change. I think everyone benefits from atleast putting it out there and asking the question “What needs to be done so we are all happy in some way?” and coming up with some compromise. With heroes being reworked and gutted left and right based on even less coherence of ideas and even more chaos, I see nothing wrong with trying the alternative. 
~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance.
xavvypls
You know the cooldown time is so damn long, I’m pretty sure most mains don’t really use it or want to for that matter. It’s not even worth the risk in my opinion. It takes the same amount of time to just walk back from respawn anyway. Plus she’s literally one of the easiest to kill so I don’t know why your complaining about her crappy rez cooldown. It’s the worst ability in the game next to Valkyrie. Rez is so slow and sluggish.
I just want a rework for her, whether its getting rid of rez completely or buffing her healing. She needs to be more viable, fun, and impactful.
It’s not an opinion, it’s a fact. Just look at all the threads we have had and the amount of different ideas there have been offered. Let alone the amount of docs that are getting sent, where there are multiple ideas as well.
These are causes that created the movement, not ideas to solve it.
Mercy didn’t get reworked because just she was unfun. She got reworked because:
- Blizzard didn’t like the playstyle hide&seek it promoted
- Blizzard didn’t like that a main healer should let her teammates die to use an ult.
- A lot of players disliked Hide&Ress.
Sombra got her hack speed changed because it was too fast, plain and simple. There was no counter to it, her hack speed was faster than the human reaction speed.
Doomfist got changed because how powerfull he was.
I didn’t assume anything, anyone remotly active on the forums knows you spend a lot of time here. If you would spend all that time in actually discussing a coherent idea, you make far more progress then you do know.
Uhm no, any movement normally has an idea and a solution that in their eyes fixes the problem. Something #ReworkMercy lacks.
New? Complaints about Mercy are a year and a half old. You can call it whatever you want, we’ve had #RevertMercy before. Which you also were part of. Just because you changed the name doesn’t mean something is new.
Not sure what a state of the game has to do with your time that you have to spare…
They admitted at Blizzcon that Brigitte needed some work and they were working on it, why would they go back on that? And updates need testing etc. That takes time.
#DeleteBrig had nothing to do with the changes because the changes were already worked on before #DeleteBrig existed.
So Blizzard didn’t listen to #DeleteBrig.
Their problem was with Brig, not GOATS. Else the movement would be named #DeleteGOATS wouldn’t it.
Still another thread talking about the same subject, without actually adding anything. Seeing your complaints about being banned multiple times already on twitter, I think a lot of people agree with me.
You can disagree all you want. Fact is, just screaming “I want changes” isn’t going to get you anywhere because there is no idea to a solution. Thus no reason for Blizzard to actually do anything because they don’t know what you want.
Yeah that’s been covered for over a year and a half now.
I’m just going to quote EeveeA here and leave it at that
the reason why blizzard ignores mercy players feedback* is because none of us agree on anything
We honestly just need to get 6 or so biggest advocates for mefcy changes in a call, with an unbiased 3rd party, and argue for a few hours. Nothing productive is happening rn
You need a solution to support your movement.
Now all you do is scream “We want changes, it’s unfun!” which is zero incentive to Blizzard to do something, because they don’t know what is fun for you.
If you want changes to make something fun, you need to propose the changes because only you, or in the case the #ReworkMercy movement, knows what that fun actually means
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Looking at history of patches and hero fixes, many heroes were changed due to subjective feelings. The whole “Mass Rez is unfun to play against” thing would have never existed without said feelings towards it right?
Why are you so obsessed with this idea that the only reason Mercy was changed was because she was “unfun to play against”?
Go and watch the developer update again and listen to the very first reason Jeff gives when explaining why Mercy was changed.
It starts:
“There’s a weird behaviour that’s encouraged by the core, fundamental design of the hero…”
Literally nothing subjective at all, and nothing at all to do with being unfun to play against. It’s also painfully obvious that any version of mass res with tweaks will still have the same core, fundamental design. A design that encouraged player behaviour that Blizzard (and many others) didn’t like. I’m glad it’s gone.
Also Sombra getting her hack speed nerfs in the past, and even Doomfist’s current nerfs have literally been based on how unfun it was to play against. All feelings.
Any proof of this? I’m pretty sure Blizzard don’t balance around whether something is unfun to play against or not. They probably look at why something is unfun to play against.
4 Likes
Even more reason to figure out what to do with her and res. It’s an ultimate ability and doesn’t belong on E, let alone in the game.
Again, you can argue that. But I disagree. That doesn’t detract from the ideas that are being agreed upon.
You can argue on the semantics of causes vs ideas, but the point is, whatever these ideas are, they are ideas that can be agreed upon by the movement. Brainstorming suggestions and then discussing them is how conclusions can be made. I see no problem there.
Those are part of the reason, but still, there is one thing they all have in common:
- Subjective opinion. Based on feelings, not stats and data.
- Subjective opinion. Based on feelings, not stats and data.
- Subjective opinion. Based on feelings, not stats and data.
All of these, like the “unfun to play against” are not due to her being a must pick, or being “too powerful in the meta”, actual issues that can hurt the balance of the game. These reasons are literally because “I don’t like that”. That’s exactly proving my point.
While it was fast, I don’t see a problem with it. You still have access to your primary fire to defend yourself, and Sombra at the time was still one of the more weaker DPS on a 1v1 with her huge spread of fire. She directly counters heroes that don’t stay close to their team, and is a literal super hacker afterall, so I think the concept of taking advantage of people’s slow reaction time made sense. We’re going to have to agree to disagree there.
I believe your reasoning there is a bit too vague. How was he “too powerful?”
From what I’ve seen specifically, a lot of people hated how they had lost control in the arc when he uppercutted them. That doesn’t exactly translate into a hero being “powerful”. It was “unfun to play against”.
Once again, Ad hominem. But once again sure, let’s assume that I only exist on these forums.
Opinion, not based on fact. As already explained.
I suppose you haven’t seen the suggestions then. And if you think I was the creator of the movement, and that the movement only exists to revert mercy, then sorry, but you have just shown that you truly have no idea what you’re talking about, and completely negated all your previous claims about it from then on. 
More time to come up with a solution, and agree on ideas. Of course.
Because that’s the purpose of the PTR. To try out ideas in a testing environment before going live. You can argue that it had nothing to do with the changes, but the facts are, that neither of us can confirm whether or not #deletebrig had anything to do with it. With key people being in said movement, and their influence in the game as a whole, I’ll place my bets and say that I wouldn’t be surprised if they did. We’re going to just have to agree to disagree there.
In the sense of removing the hero from the game? Not in the literal sense. In terms of making her “unfun to play against” and needing to be gutted because of it? I would say so.
More ad hominem, without context. A common behavior when one cannot rebuttal said points. The injustice I’ve experienced from trolls that I’ve exposed on twitter has nothing to do with wondering what the devs think about the #reworkMercy movement, does it? If anything, you have proven my point even more. On that note, I thought you said I’m only active on the forums? Oh dear.
And you can argue all you want. Once again, sorry. I completely disagree with your opinion. Thanks for sharing though!
I believe you are confused there. As I said, it’s a new movement. I’m sure in time there will be a solution that everyone can agree upon to some extent. Something like this isn’t just done overnight. And I’m excited with the progress that’s already been made thus far.
On wards to Victory! #ReworkMercy
~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance.
xavvypls
It’s not a new movement, it’s the same movement, the only thing that is new about it is the branding because you guys clearly realized much of the rest of the player base views the people that push this agenda, and the way they are pushing it, as toxic and negative (that’s why it’s now being promoted as positive even though it’s really not.)
I’m literally watching this person take peoples posts apart and responding with just “that’s ad hominem” and “that’s your opinion/subjective opinion” paragraph by paragraph, and yet I’m somehow supposed to be made believe that this entire “movement” isn’t just subjective opinion? Get real, people.
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I don’t think there’s really a good reason to rework her. She’s balanced. Why change what isn’t broken?
If you are going to make a whole bunch of new mechanisms, etc. for a new Mercy, why not just make an entire new hero who uses them? Some of these reworks are so different they’re basically entirely new heroes. Why not just make them actual new heroes and keep Mercy in the game as she is?
It’s kind of like the Sym 3.0 suggestions that wanted to make Sym 3.0 a completely new hero and keep Sym 2.0, except that Sym 2.0 kind of had no place to function in the modern game, whereas Mercy is completely acceptable in terms of balance right now.
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If that is your description of the movement, then I’m sorry, but you are mistaken. I would suggest doing some research on what the movement is actually about, their goals, and their values, before making assumptions.
A rework and a revert are two different things, let’s not try to confuse the two to suit an agenda, if you please. Also, if ad hominem wasn’t used, it wouldn’t be pointed out, making personal attacks on other people and throwing insults is simply not acceptable, and weakens the argument being made.
Also, if you don’t like the movement, then simply don’t support it. If you already don’t support it, then there’s no need to post in threads about it is there? Simply mute them, and move on. At the end of the day, no one is forcing you to “believe in” anything, and you are free to think whatever you want about it. And those that do support the movement will continue to do so. Just posting hate about something, and attack those who differ in their opinions from your own, is hardly being constructive in the forums.
Have a good one!
~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance.
xavvypls
What’s rich is trying to sell the rework as something different than a revert when really, it’s a “revert with minor tweaks” to make it just different enough to not count as a revert. And if it isn’t that, it’s 20 other half-baked ideas that just never sound feasible to me.
The best part is the illusion of unity when no one can really get the story straight as to what it actually is that they want. “We agree we want change, we just all want different things!” So do you really agree with each other?
It’s insane to me that someone would try to shove this movement down peoples throats and when they are met with opposition they have the audacity to say “If you don’t support it, mute the thread and don’t post in it!” when the same could be applied to people who don’t support the reality of Mercy’s current kit. Sorry, but I am just as free to voice my dissent with this movement as you are to spam the forums about it all day. When all is said and done no one will be able to look back and say that this movement was something all Mercy mains agreed upon.
But nice try attempting to silence people who don’t agree with you. You should know by now that that just isn’t going to happen.
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Thanks for projecting your opinion, but once again, you seem to be completely misinformed on what you are talking about, and thus, we are once again going to have to agree to disagee.
I’m not sure what caused you to have such a skewed perception on the movement, but I would suggest you do your research on the movement before posting about it. The #reworkMercy movement is doing great things, and with the focus on positive change for the hero, many suggestions on multiple reworks, and people from many different ranks and backgrounds showing their support, I have nothing but high hopes down the line.
If you don’t like that concept, then I would suggest visiting another thread, and muting this one. At this point, you aren’t being constructive, and are harassing others who have previously disagreed with you and chose to leave it at that. Now you can continue to argue with yourself about it, but I won’t partake. Regardless, thanks for sharing your thoughts, and have an awesome rest of your day!
The issue many people have with her is not that she’s “broken”, the issue is that she isn’t fun to play, engaging, rewarding, or impactful. And to that, I’m inclined to agree.
~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance.
xavvypls