#reworkMercy | Any Thoughts?

General Discussion
43

Well I’m sure you would also find that your arguments are hard to counter as well. I’ve made the same points in the past too. The bottom line is that the reasons as to why Mercy was reworked… well… aren’t very strong ones from what I’ve seen, that is, if said argument is supposed to say that “Mass Rez is OP.” Stats can prove that not to be the case.

This is where I think the dilemma lies. The way I see it, Removing Mass Rez was great for them in the short term, because a lot of the people who were vocal about how unfun it was get what they want (particularly a lot of the pro players), and it justifies pushing forward the new rework without first trying to balance mass rez. They also seemed to have felt that Mercy mains would be thrilled about these new changes to the point where they would all just forget about the old ultimate, So in that sense, I suppose it was seen as a win-win for them.

I don’t think they expected the rework as being even more OP and game-breaking than Mass Rez ever was, and with the various nerfs, left her in a state where a lot of people simply aren’t happy with her and think she’s just not impactful enough to keep up with the other supports. And besides the whole deletebrig thing and the negativity that followed that across all ranks, along with people just getting burned out with this meta (I think seabird and other pros actually talked about this) is also why I think things with various movements are starting to take traction.

Now if you asked me if something like GOATS or Ult spam will go away anytime soon without something like a “Mass Rez” ability, I honestly don’t know. But I do wonder if these current problems people are experiencing with this game (Most Qs win for example) would have still existed if Mass Rez was still being balanced and tweaked.

~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance.
xavvypls :blue_heart:

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44

Well yes?

Plenty of feedback has been given on what people want on the character.

During a collective discussion of high elo Mercy players, they all collectively agreed that they wanted Mercy to become:

*More Skillful

And

*More Impactful

Not to mention, the majority of youtube channels who have gone over the movement have stated that we, the movement, want mercy to be a more fun hero, impactful, and skillful.

Not to mention, there have been more then 200,000 collective megathread posts. If the developers want to take a gander at it.

I’m sure we have our point across so the developers would know what we expect.

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45

I’m all for a rework. I’ve never felt Valk+E Rez was a satisfactory v2, OP, UP or balanced it plain felt bad to use.

I’m glad that there are high-profile community members in favor of tweaking Mercy to be more enjoyable and have more of a skill gap, even if we effectively have to “wait our turn” while Blizz addresses more immediately problematic heroes, just knowing there’s a push for better things is comforting.

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46

Does many of them suggest to work with rez as an ultimate again?

47

Symm and torb were never afloat so I don’t agree with the that. I think Mercy needs work, but it’s not unrealistic that it could go worse because symm mains are pretty much in line with how unfun 3.0 is to them when a buff to 2.0 is all that was asked. Mercy needs work and a rework imo but to act like symm or torb players have ever been in the same boat as Mercy isn’t fair to them. Torb and symm have never been meta, their reworks have alienated their playerbase in all ways, and hasn’t done anything to help with toxicity.

48

I do feel that Mass rez was overpowered, but this wasnt (and isnt) my main problem with it

What I saw were Mercy mains - Mercy is a healer, mind you - choosing to not heal their teammates so that they could get what was generally referred to as “the big rez” when those living teammates became dead teammates because of the withheld healing

I did not - and still do not - support healer/support play where said characters are provided incentive to forgo healing, as they were when mass rez was a thing

There may well be those who will claim upon reading this post that this rarely happened. In my experience, it happened in nearly every game I was a part of where I was not the Mercy player, as well as nearly every game I watched

I greatly prefer the current kit

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49

I can assure you, as a Mercy player myself, I dont find that small collection of individuals (which sadly included one of the very worst youtubers that exists in terms of mercy and/or OW related content) represents me at all; and I can assure you that there are plenty of others whose stance on Mercy does not agree with that held/presented by those individuals either

I do agree with one piece of what Eeveea said in the tweet you included: that Mercy mains do not agree on what they want. I’ll expand that to say that there are those who want no changes (this group being united) and another group that wants changes. This second group is further fragmented - they dont all want the same changes. Some even want mutually exclusive changes, with one fragment wanting mass rez returned, and another wanting rez in any form removed altogether. As such, there is as I see it no way for Blizzard to ever make everyone happy.

Again, these do not represent Mercy players as a whole

These megathreads, as well as other Mercy-related threads, do not solely express the desire for change(s), or even (as I explained earlier) the same change(s)

If I were a developer, and I read all of this, I would conclude that no matter what I do or dont do, there will be a large and vociferous group of folks who will be unhappy with the state of Mercy. I would feel incentivized to move on to other work where I have a chance of creating something that folks will like.

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50

I think the same happens with zarya tho. Dps will forgo a good play for potg in zaryas ult even if it’s not needed. And I think those kinds of people should have been punished.
Mercy players should have been punished for only waiting on large rezzes and still losing. They should have fixed the Sr exploit for it and instead looked at healing to rez ratio versus rez in general. But that never happened. I think now, Mercy is less impactful but thats led to her being physically incapable of making mistakes. Zenyatta bot can make mistakes and often uses trans at like the weirdest times. Mercy is incapable of making such mistakes as a real player

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51

As I stated in my orginal post, I was regarding movement members, not Mercy players as a collective group.

I know some people who love her current state, but wouldn’t be against having another rework, so saying that every Mercy player wants her changed would be a complete and utter lie.

The megathread was created because a large amount of Mercy players stated their dissatisfaction with the rework.

I’ve followed the megathreads since the beginning, yes there were some Mercy mains who enjoyed Valk Mercy, but an overwhelming majority disliked her.

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52

Factually, even alleged movement members do not agree on the details of what should be changed – rather, only that they are unhappy with what she is now. Consensus does not appear to exist on what she should be changed to

Factually, I never made such a claim

I can assure you that there are many of us who like her in her current state AND do not want a rework. In fact, theres the old adage - if it aint broke, why fix it? Particularly after seeing the damage done to recently reworked characters like Sym and Torb

I dont know if this was the reason, but I can agree that a large number of folks were (and still are) unhappy with Mercy’s current state

That said, such megathreads also contain statements disagreeing with those folks. Many such statements.

I dont know that valid data exists to support the conclusion about whether this group was the majority or not.

Large number? Agreed

Majority? Possibly, but not assuredly

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53

I wasn’t in that call! :disappointed:

54

if it aint broke, why fix it?

Then why was she reworked in the first place?

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55

Don’t care if she’s #reworked, just #dontbringbackmassres

56

This is too much.

57

This.

I believe the issue is such that at this point, even players in the highest ranks are realizing how Mercy still needs to be made more impactful.

While of course, some can play the numbers game and each time Mercy gets a buff say “Hmmm… All she needs is some more healing.” I’m just not sure if it’s enough to make her more fun to play, impactful, engaging, or rewarding.

Perhaps there is a group of people who love her as she is now and only think she would need minor tweaks (to which I say, that’s great, and that they should definitely keep loving the hero).

But from what I’m seeing so far, with things like the #reworkMercy movement catching on so quickly, to the point where even big Youtubers like YourOverwatch, Unit Lost, RagTagg, etc. to Jayne, Eevee_A and other high ranking players and even OWL coaches, are giving their thoughts on it and suggesting reworks / suggestions of their own, I think it’s fair to say that Mercy is most definitely not seen as “fine” by lots of people. I’m curious as to what the devs think about all of this, and whether they agree or disagree with some of the points various players have been making about her. :blush:

~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance.
xavvypls :blue_heart:

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58

I was/am referring to the present, not the past

59

I kno but it still applies to the past. She wasn’t overall broke so she shouldn’t hav been “fixed”. All she needed was some small tweaks.

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60

Probably not going to happen anytime soon why would they gut a very popular hero when they can make another one

61

I kind of like Mercy where she’s at. I still play her a lot, but I also get to play other supports without people crying about lack of heals.

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62

For many of this, this point has already been reached, in her present state

Said another way, many of us already feel she is “fun to play, impactful, engaging, or rewarding”

Factually, there are.

I do not know if it was or was not your intent to imply that that it was only possible such folks exist, rather than acknowledging that such folks (myself included) exist; but this was (as I see it) what you appear to be doing via inclusion of the word “perhaps” in this statement

I am not sure why you chose to include Jayne on your list (particularly since your reply to Jayne on Dec 9th indicates that you read his remarks) on this matter because he specifically and clearly puts distance between himself and this thing

https://twitter.com/AskJayne/status/1071843421596213249

For those of you unable to get to twitter, here’s what the above says

For the others? Youtubers/Streamers create content to earn themselves money. If they can put up a video on a subject that folks will click on and earn them money, they will. This subject is one such subject. If they feel they can get more views by agreeing, thats their stance. If they feel they can get more views by disagreeing, thats their stance.

Even folks like me who disagree wholeheartedly with the subject may well listen, just as I read (many) posts on these forums that I disagree with wholeheartedly

I would have paid reasonably good money to watch one of the devs start to read about (or listen to) this recent “meeting”, specifically for the moment when they realize that one of those involved has repeatedly and viciously bashed Blizzard, The Overwatch team, and specific Blizzard employees in multiple videos and posts in other media.

I am beginning to think I will never gain an understanding of the relevance of this emoticon in the context of a post like the one I am replying to here.

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