OMFG… I challenge any Zarya except the best to keep a constant damage that Moira can do on drain… it doesn’t happen. I just tested in the Firing Range. For the first two dummies, at about 5-6m , Zarya basically has to sweep the beam ONTO the target, Moira in contrast can literally be pointed about half the width of the dummy OFF THE TARGET and still hit, with the graphic then centering on the target. The hit-boxes aren’t even close.
I couldn’t care less about the mechanic, we are discussing the effective ease with which Moira’s drain works, it literally has a hit-box larger than the target… that is nuts…
Even if true, its nowhere near as often and as easy to pull off, and it doesn’t self heal. I can play both and even full charge no way that beam is as easy to track with as Moira’s “soft-lock”. Its an obtuse point at best in the light of how easy it is.
Unless your target is entirely unable to attack you, the added healing from Moira’s beam does not make up the damage lost compared to Zarya in effective health. That is, unless you’re just supplementing someone else’s fight (which is how Moira is intended to attack to fuel her healing, mind you), Zarya actually gains more effective health due to not letting her target live for so long.
Also, gaining 75%+ energy as Zarya is downright trivial in nonorganized games because the other team isn’t calling your bubbles or will even bother to not shoot them. There’s a reason she is somewhat popular in disorganized situations, easy to do tons of damage with a high-DPS thick beam and being able to remove most negative effects.
That’s not to say Moira isn’t effective against certain flankers like Genji or Tracer at times. Or against anyone with bad aim because of her easy hitbox. But her damage is so very, very, very low! She needs a lot of time to kill people, time in which she isn’t healing, time in which the team could be killing even more if she were healing.
Her damage is well-balanced like that: It works, but it’s nearly always worse than just using it to fuel her healing. It has to be easy or it wouldn’t be sensible for a healer to do mid-combat if other healers can just heal without having to drain energy for it by exposing themselves.
I am not going to be dumb enough to debate Zarya’s sustain against Moira’s, that is not the point. Not sure why, but people keep derailing the point. This constant “well its just like Zarya’s beaaaammm” nonsense is getting out of hand. It might barely be true at full power, which it isn’t for most players 80% of the time. OTOH, even utterly new Moira’s get massive elims and damage out from a secondary which has a ridiculous sized hitbox.
Sorry, she is not balanced anywhere except beyond mid-plat. There is no reason why her hit box shouldn’t be reduced to at least the size of the target width and make her more of a skill character, and I would even allow more damage to compensate. She would be more balanced at lower tiers and more balanced up top to. As she is, she is out of balance low, and at the top.
Biotic Grasp(Damage) - Hitbox reduced by 50% to bring it in line with the hitbox of Zarya’s beam. Range decreased from 20 meters to 15 meters. Damage increased by 50% from 50 damage per second to 75 damage per second. Self heal on Biotic Grasp(Damage) increased from 30 per second to 35 per second.
This makes Biotic Grasp(Damage) harder to aim and puts it 5 meters shorter than the falloff range of the shortest mid range characters in the game. The 75 damage per second and increased self heal, however, rewards Moiras with good aim and the ability to stay alive given that she has to put herself at more risk to use it with the range reduction.
Biotic Orb(Damage) - Hitbox reduced by 50%. Duration reduced by 50% from 10 seconds to 5 seconds. Total damage of the orb increased by 50% from 200 damage to 300 damage. Damage per second increased by 50% from 50 to 75 damage per second. Untethered travel speed increased by 50% from 20 meters per second to 30 meters per second. Biotic Orb(Damage) now replenishes biotic energy(healing resource).
Again, the hitbox reduction makes it require significantly better aim and prediction to land the damage orb. The duration reduction and increased velocity serve to make the damage orb feel less “random.” The damage increase will reward skillful Moira players who use the orb correctly with these changes, and the orb gaining the ability to replenish healing resource aids Moira’s healing and gives her a much needed option for replenishing her healing resource from afar, taking into consideration the range nerf I’ve proposed for Biotic Grasp(Damage).
Animation changes - The animation for Biotic Grasp(Damage) would be changed from a tendril that appears to “lock on” to whatever target the beam is affecting to three or four tendrils that arc out from Moira’s palm and then converge together at the point of impact.
The returning biotic energy from her damage orb would be animated as biotic energy trails that home in on Moira, sort of like the transfusion trails from transfusion grenades in Borderlands games.
No one ever said high charge until later… Stop with “B-b” nonsense. too, no need to be disrespectful. Its a specious point in the greater question of how darn easy Moira’s aim is compared to anyone, and going to the utter extreme of using the low probability case of Zarya’s beam on near full power is ridiculous and an outlier if it is even remotely true.
I have yet to hear a cogent argument against tightening the hit-box up some, which could only make her more balanced in lower tiers and better higher up if the damage is balanced accordingly, and maybe, maybe the rates of resource regeneration, not even sure that should take place.
And she’d heal less, so erm… I just reread the OP’s post, and I think you are missing the point of the whole thread then.
If anything, do the opposite. Give her a proper lock-on - Sym style, old Sym that is. In return, reduce the damage to 30-35, but make it drain energy 15%-20% faster. Can even reduce the size of the original hit-beam to what the graphics imply if it properly stickies like Sym’s beam did.
The point would be: less damage output, but if anything faster to drain energy back, so more time for healing.
Not compared to everyone (I mean, compare Bastion or Winston or Hanzo with his flying redoak trees), but yeah, she’s on the side of the hero pool with the more lenient targeting.
To make up for two important things:
She needs to DPS to get the energy she uses to heal. And in the midst of combat, healing your team, you can’t then “waste” time trying to find the perfect aim, it has to be now. Or your team dies. Just get 1s, maybe 2s, of damage in, back to healing. Fit moments of damage between each heal spurt. If her beam had a narrow hitbox, it’d be impossible to get the damage in without focusing entirely on it, which seems to be the opposite of what people want, they want their Moiras to heal.
Importantly, her damage is so rubbish that you could give her the old Sym beam and it’d hardly matter. Unless your target is either restricted from attacking you in some way or just enjoys missing, they’ll kill you first. I mean you need 10s to get through freaking Brigitte’s shield, nevermind anything substantial. Zenyatta basically immunizes a 200HP hero from your damage because it’d take so long to kill them. It’s paltry. And she’s also not healing when she is DPSing, unlike, say, Zenyatta or Lucio.
Not sure about the orb damage, but overall I like it, its much more inline with a character who can scale properly, which is my biggest issue with the character design.
No, the thread was in fact started with the explicit goal of making Moira heal more and DPS less. I get that her targeting annoys people, but she needs easy targeting to heal, so if you make it more difficult you’ll make - especially low-skill - Moira heal less.
Then the obvious solution is to buff the healing numbers if she does less damage… sick of this argument for a low-skill character that is out of balance. I am interjecting into the thread, that’s how forums work on topics.
She does not need easy targeting to heal, that is a patent falsehood. All that needs to happen is a bump to her regen pool, she doesn’t need to aim at all really to heal, and her drain numbers can be adjusted to meet a higher aim requirement. Yes, she needs it on some level, but shouldn’t the healing be scaled to skill like say Ana considering her damage outputs and elims are more than a little skewed for half the player base at least?
The entire point here is if it is harder to aim, DPS Moiras won’t be as prevalent, they would need to “git gud” to actually play and heal the team, and numbers for pool could easily be adjusted to account for a tighter hit box. If you want a more healing Moira, make doing damage harder, its that simple.
People still think Moira is an auto lock? Good grief.
She’s not an auto lock, her weapon has a large hit box and the animation makes it look like a lock on. Also, it can only hit one person so it’s even worse than most weapons with a large hit box.
Moira already does very little DPS, and if she’s focusing too much on DPS it’s at the expense of maximizing her heals. Either way, it balances itself out basically. She’s easy to out DPS and she puts the rest of her team at a disadvantage. If you’re dying to her you were either already mostly dead, you have horrible aim, you’re out of position somewhere, and in combination with any of those you probably also aren’t paying attention.
It’s just another case of people ignoring facts in favor of their factually incorrect opinions. Even when you prove them wrong, they say “I don’t care,” because they don’t care about facts or balance. They decide they don’t like something and will reach and use anything, even fallacies and blatantly false information in their arguments.
A lot of these people coughDjawidacough are to the point that it’s just blatant trolling, and I’m really not sure how they haven’t been actioned for it when other forum posters have been actioned for posts that don’t actually violate the rules just because people disagree with and false flag them. The only thing that I can assume is that some of these users either work for Blizzard or are friends of people who work at Blizzard.
I love the “she does little damage” argument, because she virtually doesn’t miss, and can damage and simultaneously heal with two damage sources… your argument about aim means oh, about half 60% of the player base will lose 70% or more of their encounters with Moira, hardly fair.
A better design would be what was posted higher, reducing the hit-box down, upping the damage, cutting orb persistence down, to all combine make her a more skilled character.
In which case I’d add the following inequalities and considerations:
Ana is of significantly more value to her team outside of piercing healing when you actually hit with her. Her sleep dart alone wins entire engagements, nevermind how hard the grenade shuts down some characters such as Roadhog or Brigitte.
Ana and Moira also have substantially different healing modes. Ana has higher single target output and superior range, Moira’s healing multiplies when her allies are in a line.
Moira’s whole “thing” is that she can’t freely and efficiently heal if she cannot drain. That’s the point. If you buff her healing, you remove reliance on the drain, which in turn makes her not only overall stronger but also flat and … well… boring?
It’s funny that no one takes offense to Soldier 76 having a *no targeting needed heal which heals more or less an entire DPSer’s health pool, and does so to everyone in the area. But a healer who can do damage is somehow an affront. Even if the damage is utterly insignificant and only at all works due to the relaxed targeting requirements. (what I’m trying to say is: get off your high horse, if you want Moiras to heal more, play one, heal with her, I’m tired of getting all my support chars nerfed because a Genji or Tracer couldn’t freely gank their chosen support target - yes this is coming from a multi-support-main)
Why is just shooting her in the face before her paltry 50 DPS kills you a problem with Moira, but somehow not with all the other characters who are killed that way?
His no target heal is pathetic in comparison and small, hardly in the same league, you’re reaching here.
Again, why shouldn’t we move to making Moira a more skilled character? Designs have been put forth that make sense. You can quote numbers all day, but the reality is she’s excessively easy to get elims, damage and value out of up through mid-plat.
I disagree she is “balanced” as that is subjective as heck. By most accounts she is a bit OP lower down, and weak at the top, I guess you could say she is balanced.
Again, she got a pass due to the introduction of Brig, and people have lived with the design so long its only now people are again starting to ask questions.
If aim of that level really doesn’t matter, then lets just give Sym a “soft-lock” style primary to match Moira’s… I am astounded that people defend it given the number of games up through mid-Plat that she dominates… amazing.
Okay, I’ll try once more to get through as to how utterly inane the whole idea is.
I just checked stats on bronze - bronze! - supports. Moira does not deal the most damage of them. Yes she is the most-picked, but even that only marginally more so than Mercy.
Which begs an interesting question: You say she is too easy to hit with. And this makes DPSing with her too powerful, or somehow “problematic”, because (this part I can understand) that doesn’t scale properly, at lower levels people aim worse so her lenient hitbox would be far stronger in Bronze than in GM, and so on.
Yet, the stats just disagree with that. This makes me wonder, where do you pull your data from? Where do you get the idea that her targeting is problematic? Is it a personal thing based on getting killed by her or what? Because in that case, it might be… well… see, the one consistent element between you and all the people who kill you is… well… you.
Ah, why listen to evidence or anything if we can instead band together and chant occult phrases?
Sorry, I didn’t know people still did the whole religious belief-trumps-science thing. Thought we were in… lemme check… no no, it clearly says 2019 here on my clock. Damn. Blast from the past!
Again, if Moira’s “easy targeting” were so easy, shouldn’t she utterly dominate lower rankings? How come she’s popular but other than a lot of people picking her, nothing happens? They pick her, but they fail to be superior with her, which makes me wonder what the voracity of all your claims are. It seems the entire premise is wrong.
(what I’m trying to say is: get off your high horse, if you want Moiras to heal more, play one, heal with her, I’m tired of getting all my support chars nerfed because a Genji or Tracer couldn’t freely gank their chosen support target - yes this is coming from a multi-support-main)