If that’s the only comparison it’s not much of a comparison.
You may misunderstand exactly what is going on here.
Multiple “armours”!?!?
That’s NOT supposed to be a thing in Overwatch, that’s NOT how armour works ANYWHERE else. No one ever said it was supposed to work like this. The rule is supposed to be “if the damage value would reduce even a single point of armoured health then the armour effect is applied to that batch of damage which is half damage, up to -3 damage for that batch”.
Nothing of how armour is “batched” or “layered” where this -3 can apply multiple times for one single damage value!
No term like “armours” exist in talking about armour in health in overwatch. Health points are armoured or not armoured.
This is a big thing what they found, but it doesn’t change anything in regard to her state in Ladder.
It’s just explain why she is so good at Goats, and why she is generally good even at the highest ranks without Goats.
Calm down dude, maybe its an oversight of the mechanic, or maybe its on prupose, (it aint the first time there are obscure mechanics we havent heared of)
Want an example of an obscure mechanic that shouldnt be how itworks but it does and this is confirmed by the devs?
Ashes ult, Your not meant to gain ultimate charge while your ultimate is up, yet she does,
Please don’t interpret emphasis as shouting, it’s emphasis because you seem to be glossing over a lot of things.
You’re glossing over how utterly broken this is.
I doubt the devs would ever do anything quite this underhanded as to deliberately implement such a significant and obscure change secretly.
This has all the hallmarks of a bug.
That’s not an example at all, devs explicitly said how it was supposed to work.
They explicitly said how it should work and that it not working that is a bug.
And even if you didn’t know about that post, that’s not an “obscure mechanic” that would just be an inconsistency. It’s not actually that consistent what ults do or don’t allow you to continue to gain ult charge.
Only after it was complained that it stopped working, Thats the moment where they made it clear because ppl though they were nerfing the hero
Again im just saying that, Lets stop here for a minute before saying anything and asking for bug fixes and stuff, We have seen plenty of bugfixes that have either crazily damaged a heros viability, or made it really strong
We are all in the same page in knowing that this isnt normal, and that it may be a bug,
But we also have to consider, Hey, Look at the state the character is in (which is a whoooooooooooooole topic on itself and hard to get a grasp on because of the sheer amount of controversy the character has) and then think, What is this bug doing for the character,
Because, Yes, this is an inconsistent mechanic with the rest of the other abilities, Just like ashes ult as i pointed out before
But this inconsistency may be what is keeping the character from beeing worse, which changes our question from “Is this a bug or not?” to “if it was a bug, should it even be corrected?”
There are “bugfixes” that were never fixed or turned into features just because they helped the character, Like GA bunnyhop that ability has a ton of obscure mechanics that are probably not even intended
or “bugfixes” that people said that they should have never been fixed in the first place (e.g moira)
or “bug fixes” that made characters a lot stronger than they should once they were fixed (e.g doomfist)
How do you know that? You work with Bill Warnecke at his office and heard him saying the opposite and he’s just caving to demands?
I don’t think so. I think you’re making up slanderous accusations about developers in their own forums that they set up for you while hiding behind the veil of anonymity.
I also have the veil of anonymity, but I don’t use it to make scurrilous unfounded and irrefutable accusations against public figures who put their reputation on the line.
I have clearly stated why this bug is bad, it should go not just because it is a bug, it should go because it’s bad.
All you seem to be seeing is that Rally should be a better ultimate and maybe it should… but not like this. This is a TERRIBLE way to make Rally as good as it should ever need to be.
I think that is a TERRIBLE reason to turn a blind eye to a bug this bad.
This is going to lead to such frustration for anyone who is on or against a team that has Rally. It’s going to lead to such inconsistent performance, it’s like trying to defend extreme lag and packet loss against an excessively weak hero.
The answer to that is an unequivocal:
YES
It’s just so far beyond dumb to not want a game breakingly inconsistent damage bug to not be fixed because a character needs to be saved by an unreliably much more powerful ult.
It’s an ultimate… it’s not a core ability, it’s going to be rarely used. A hero can have a terrible ult that’s never really used and still be very viable, like McCree’s ult.
If you can’t see how this is different from something like bunnyhopping I don’t have the patience to explain it to you. Everyone else understands this.
Far FAR more bugs were removed because they were bad for the game.
This Rally bug is: bad for the game.]
I an using capitalisation for emphasis PLEASE STOP acting like the only opposition to this is because it’s technically a bug. Address that this is BAD. It’s bad how inconsistent it is.
If Rally was supposed to be better it should be CONSISTENTLY better. Don’t accuse me of not being calm, because you’re continually glossing over how the problem with this bug is how INCONSISTENT the effect of Rally is.
There is no reason this bug fix cannot then allow Rally to be buffed to have the sufficiently consistent and predictable protection.
Those were good because it was NOT good for Doomfist to be made so weak, whether he was weak because of bugs or weak intentionally.
Yes there are a lot of irrational haters who hate on doomfist, but guess what? Those haters are wrong. They are just using doomfist as a scapegoat, an easy target, they want to blame his state for them losing and they are being completely irrational about it.
When you cut through their BS you find they have no legitimate reason to have a problem with doomfist, they are just bad at the game and want the game rigged in their favour and think they can get doomfist nerfed.
what are you saying? im not accusing anyone? you really gotta chill out now
its ironic that you claim im doing slanderous accusations when you literally just psyched yourself intodoing the same tihing
I am not doing any kind of slanderous accusations,
im literally pointing out a fact
they made that mechanic clear, in that thread, where people where saying ashe didnt get ult charge anymore and were confused if it was a bug fix or not, the OP thought it was a nerf
Quoting the OP HIMSELF
its a fact, im not beeing slanderous or anything
they literally made that mechanic clear for the first time, up until that point WE DIDNT EVEN KNOW IF IT WAS A BUG
i never said it was wrong, it was bad, it was good
NOTHING
you made up a story in your head, and ironically, only made yourself seem like the exact thing you are accusing me off
If all your going to do is jump into conclusions like that then i have no intrest in following up this conversation
Sounds to me like how armor has always worked…? Sustained damage is the worst against armor of any kind. You want burst damage to deal with armor because you can easily prevent it from stacking.
I’m not seeing the problem but that could just be me.
So multiple different instants of armor simultaneously reduce the incoming damage on one source of damage instead of only reducing once? That explains why she feels extra sturdy…
His Overload armor is a separate layer from his base armor. So, if he takes enough damage to cut thru the overload into his regular armor the armor will mitigate it twice.
That’s why I’m curious how old this bug is, it might be brand new with some of the newer brig/torb changes/armor order or it might have been like this since launch.
No you’re not, you’re saying the exact opposite happened of what actually happened.
You claimed “Ashes ult, Your not meant to gain ultimate charge while your ultimate is up, yet she does,”
Then when I provided you a source where the developers said “Ashe should generate ultimate charge while B.O.B. is active” she did gain ult charge before and the developer was absolutely explicit that Ashe later being unable to generate ult charge during an ult was a bug, so… unintentional.
This is barely relevant to this rally bug except for your poor attempt to cite this as supporting your rationale to not fix this Rally bug.
So to steer this back on topic… dealing with the reality of Ashe’s ult, how does Ashe’s ult justify any consideration at all of not fixing this bug with Rally?
And don’t quibble that “this might not be a bug” that’s pure semantic.
Armor was and still is oppressive to low-damage, high-velocity heroes like Wrecking Ball, Sombra, and Tracer, and certain shot-gun based heroes like Reaper, D.va and Doomfist who deliver large burst damage in smaller, spread-like bullets.
The problems with armor considered an okay-perk to the tank class heroes given that they tend to be very large targets. However, with the introduction to of Brigitte and her Rally’s improved armor mechanic, and the introduction of Wrecking Ball, who’s low-damage high velocity fire mechanic furthered a need to reduce the effectiveness of armor. Even among the beam-based heroes, such as Zarya and Winston, armor was naturally oppressive, but very effective against low-health heroes.
Rally’s improved armor, is not new stuff, and I’m pretty sure that Blizzard is at least somewhat aware of Brigitte’s Rally issues which is why they changed it from adding permanent improved armor to temporary improved armor. It needs to be an ult for a reason, and simply giving basic armor isn’t really enough to justify it as an ult.
But if they needed to adjust Brigitte’s overall balance tweaks a bit more, they really should drop the added 50 armor to her health. There’s no need for a barrier support hero like Brigitte to be running around with a barrier and armor that’s specifically a perk to tank heroes, Bastion and Torbjorn (for a number of reasons).
Should be easy to test, just overload in front of a bot that deals a single attack dealing about 120 damage.
Well I just tested that in a custom game getting a soldier bot to shoot a single Helix rocket at me. And testing against unarmoured “white” health, his helix rockets definitely are dealing 120 damage.
Yet when I’m shot by a helix rocket when overloading I’m reduced from 350HP to 239HP.
Yeah, The 120 damage rockets were reduced by 9 damage… EEEEEEEH?!?
I also tested with Brig using Rally, after the bonus armour increases to +100 the helix rocket only reduced Brig’s HP from 350 to 254.
It reduced the damage by 24, not by only 3 damage as it should.
I wonder, if we had had demo record for longer would we have been able to spot this sooner?
Something has me thinking this might be a new bug, might explain why it’s only being found now.
Yes because its not a normal thing for any character to gain ultimate while they are already using it,
is what i refered to, you misunnderstood completly
Genji doesnt gain ult charge as he uses his ultimate, to give out an example, the fact that ashe does is a exception, an abnormality, leading many people to belive it is a bug which it wasnt
this ties in with me saying that exceptions are a good thing and why this could potentially also be a meant feature
What im trying to get to
is that if the ultimate is so weak already with a bug that is making it better than it should
then after this bugfix is done, it will need some compensation buffs because its already very weak
hence why im saying, dont fully get rid of the bug, or consider options before you do
Oh so when you said “Your not meant to gain ultimate charge while your ultimate is up”
You actually meant “I assume it’s a rule that no hero is supposed to gain ult charge while their ult is active” you phrased your general assumption as if you were saying this was the clear intent for Ashe’s ult.
Nowhere was it EVER said that’s the rule, you just made an assumption that’s all the case when in fact loads of heroes gain ult charge while their ult is active, not only Ashe but also D.Va, Torbjörn, Tracer, and Hammond.
How armour is supposed to work has been specified:
For any given damage value it halves it with the damage reduction capped at -3 damage (and exceptions for beam/DoT attacks)
That clearly stated rule in the patch notes is clearly contradicted by how this Rally armour works. The amount the damage is reduced is not capped at -3, it’s getting 8x higher!
Also WHY would this possibly be intentional?!? This is exactly in line with an oversight of how armour is applied, 15HP of armour at a time.
yeah i assumed it was a consistent rule because i never seen anyone other than ashe doing it,
For Dva, she gains ult charge for “another” ult so i kind of passed that and dva is literally two different characters so i assumed that was an exception
but for torb tracer and hammond i literally had no idea they did lol, and i play torb a lot
Ill preface this by saying I havent verified the claim- But if its true, its a huge problem.
Youre right in that you should want to use burst to deal with armor.
The concern is that if this is true, burst is deceptively ineffective at dealing with it.
Say youve got an attack that does 75 damage, and you shoot at 75 armor.
Under how we believe armor to work in MOST cases, that armor will reduce the 75 damage by 3, and youll deal 72 damage (In this case, leaving 3 armor)
But with rally working the way theyre talking- That “75 armor” isnt really “75 armor”, its:
15 + 15 + 15 + 15 + 15
And each stack reduces the damage by 3 as it breaks into a new layer
That 75, gets reduced by 3, and then removes the 15 armor- Leaving 57. That 57 gets reduced by 3, then removes the next stack, leaving 39. Reduced, removes the next- 21. Reduced, removed, 3 left and still 1 stack of armor. That 3 gets reduced to half (cant remember how overwatch halves odd numbers for damage).
Basically, “stacking armor” multiplies the reduction, for each stack of armor that any source of damage blows through. Instead of being reduced by 3, a single source of damage can be reduced by 6, 9, 12, etc.
