A month ago Hog/Zar had a combined pickrate of 55.03% in GM. (Double shield also had extremely high pickrates before it was nerfed) Roadhog had 31.35% & Zarya had 23.68%. The 3rd most picked tank was Wrecking Ball with only 13.38%.
Compare that to now.
Right now, 6/8 tanks have 11% or higher pickrate in GM (rounding Roadhog’s 10.98% to 11). Back then, only 3/8 were. The disparity between tanks is also much smaller now. Winston is the most picked with 24.72%, closely followed by Zarya with 22.02%. 3rd is Ball with 15.56%. 4th is Dva with 13.70%. 5th is Reinhardt with 11.48%, closely followed by Roadhog with 10.98%.
Those percentages are so much closer than they were before. There is much more variety now & therefore better balance in the tank role now. 2 tanks taking up 55% of tank playtime is not balanced. The 4 middle of the pack tanks (Ball, Dva, Reinhardt, Hog) making up 51.72% of tank playtime is definitely much more balanced
Are things perfect? No. Are things better? Definitely yes
Stat references: https://imgur.com/a/Px8RNHr 28 days ago https://imgur.com/a/KRfotH8 today
I do like that I can play Monkey or Ball and not get flamed. When I tank I main tank, so I’m happy I don’t have to play Rein or get reported. Fix Orisa though. Yeesh.
But most of them got nerfed to a point where the weaker tanks became better. That shouldn’t be the case, not when Orisa has the lowest pickrate amongst heroes right now
I’m 90% sure a tank has never been worse than Bastion
And Sigma isn’t far behind.
I’d imagine Hogs pickrate is going to drop off hard once it calms down, becauses hes much worse than before
The top 2 tank pickrates & tank disparity were the same/even worse in Double shield. Orisa/Sigma were everywhere in GM & most other tanks were nowhere to be seen.
Currently Winston/Zarya have a combined pickrate of 47%. Prior to the Hog buff patch, which was horribly thought out in the view of many, the top two tanks had a combined pickrate of 36%. Currently, we have two tanks under a 10% pickrate, sitting at or below a 1% pickrate. Before the Hog buff patch, there was only one, sitting at a 2% pickrate. Currently, we have a 15-point spread in winrate, with three tanks falling below 50% WR in GM. Before, we had a 4% spread in winrate with no tank falling below 50% WR.
If you use one of the worst points in Overwatch Tank balance history as your reference point, yeah, it’s “better” now, but it still stinks. And even then, it’s a little questionable how much “better” it really is–while the pickrate spread was worse, we also didn’t have the level of extremely poor pickrates we do now (four under ten, but the lowest any reaches is 2%), and the winrate spread was much better (11% spread, only one under 50%. It’s not even an unambiguous victory over what many will agree was one of the trashiest and most frustrating periods of tank balance in the game’s lifespan.
I guess I’m wondering why in the world are you bringing hog Zarya stats into this?
That was a fluke and a mistake by blizzard. In their crusade to kill double shield they did too much and buffed hog. As the byproduct we got to experience hell for a month.
I’d take this post more seriously if you compared double shield to now or even maybe stats from different metas. Comparing a truly horrible meta that was a mistake to now is hard for me to take as serious.
Yeah more can be played but that’s from them reverting damage creep and fixing hog.
The meme at what cost comes to mind/ let’s just gut orisa, smack sigma down a few pegs, and train wreck hog.
Sounds good.
3/8, over 25% try again. Pickrates are important but so are winrates. But if we are talking win and pick rates Orisa is worse than bastion now.
Are things better? That’s an opinion. If your an orisa player a big hell no.
I’m comparing the current patches stats to Double shield & Hog/Zar since those are the 2 most recent metas.
Sigma & Orisa’s pickrate in GM during double shield were very similar to Hog & Zarya’s pickrates in GM a month ago (Sigma in the 30’s & Orisa in the 20’s). The top 2 tanks were ahead by a longshot compared to the next best thing & the rest of the tanks were fighting just to have double digit pickrates.
Compared to the year long double shield meta & very short lived Hog/Zar meta, Tank balance is great. 6/8 tanks have an 11% or higher pickrate & are being played consistently compared to 2 or 3.
Instead of the 3rd, 4th, 5th & 6th most picked tanks making up around 30% of pickrates, they’re now making up over 50%. That’s clearly better balance
Sigma & Orisa’s pickrates were very similar to Hog/Zar pickrates during Hog/Zar meta. Meaning the rest of the tanks weren’t even close in pickrate, like they are now. It’s only Sigma & Orisa that aren’t close in pickrate. 6/8 tanks being close in pickrate is much more balanced than 2/8 or 3/8
I’m saying Tank balance as a whole is better. Orisa & Sigma only players probably do not agree because they are the 2/8 tanks that aren’t favored right now, which is a first for them in a year.
This is where I’m at for the reasons I stated. Sigma & Orisa made up over 50% of pickrates during double shield in GM & half the tanks were fighting for even a fraction of the playtime. Now, there’s only a 13% gap from the most picked tank (Winston) to the 6th most picked (Roadhog). The difference in double shield was probably about 25%, with Sigma in the mid 30’s & the 6th most picked tank under 10%
Which makes the point highly disingenuous (particularly because I happened to see the thread where you originally found this data, which included the data I’m referencing and you conveniently left out). It’s cherry-picking at its finest.
If Tank balance goes from a relatively decent state, to an abysmal state, to a somewhat less abysmal state that’s still nowhere near as good as the original decent state… guess what? It’s still a pretty abysmal state. Like I said, hooray for mediocrity and stepping over some of the lowest conceivable bars you can set. That doesn’t mean things are in good shape.
Disregarding that the “year long double shield meta” wasn’t really a year long (because hero bans, and we did spend some time in Rein jail again with DVa and Zarya, then had a different double shield meta with Sigma+Rein instead of Sigma+Orisa, making grouping them together pretty dishonest), the “6/8 that have a 11% or higher pickrate” is intentionally overlooking some other things that are pretty important.
Here’s the meta now:
47% meta tank duo pickrate
6/8 tanks at 11% or above, one tank at 1%, one tank at 0.5%
15-point spread in winrate (42.2% to 57.2%)
Three tanks below 50% winrate
Here’s the meta one month ago:
55% meta duo pickrate
3/8 tanks at 11% or higher pickrate, one at 10%, one at 9.5%, one at 7%, one at 3%, one at 2%
10% winrate spread (46.8% to 56.5%)
One tank below 50% WR
Here’s the meta roughly two months ago (might even be a month-and-a-half):
36% meta duo pickrate
6/8 tanks at 11% or above, 1 tank at 10%, 1 tank at 2%
4-point spread in winrate (52.5% to 56.6%)
No one below 50% winrate
Which one of those is best? Even if we look at the first two exclusively, it’s not like the first is just flat-out better. While the pickrate stats are better, the winrate stats are worse. And yeah, they both matter. Cherry-picking one doesn’t really convey the whole story.
It seems a little ludicrous, if not outright deceitful, to focus on one statistic from such a brief period which is commonly agreed to be one of the worst periods in tank balance, while ignoring the broader statistics and the lengthier period just prior to it in which tank balance was considerably better than it is now. Again, low bars and all that. If you’re content with mediocrity, then more power to you, but I find celebrating that we’re at a 4/10 instead of a 2/10, even though just before the 2/10 (which lasted all of like… what? a month?) we were at an 8/10 to be pretty absurd.
If we are talking in the ladder and winrates for Orisa both were horrible.
Are you gm/OWL? No.
I’m not either. The only people that should complain about orisa or sigma being overused is that group that’s a small faction of people.
Take the factors of winrates, and ranks along with pickrates and you hit a better picture.
I’m don’t give a crap about gm players or OWL because they could give a crap about my rank or my games.
At some point they need to separate the balance patches, or they will keep murdered heroes for the causal player base (when I say causal that’s everyone who is not masters or higher).
Well I’m the latter group obviously and not just because orisa is there. I don’t like turning a blind eye to problems. Balance is a never ending job.
Mind explaining? Because the 2 pictures posted in that post has 1 picture using the “this week” tab which shows stats from the patch that was live at that time & the other uses the “this month” which shows stats from 2-3 different patches. That isn’t usable data. You have to be on the same patch for 30 days for the this month tab to be reflective of the current patch
When was tank balance in a relatively decent state?? Surely you can’t be referencing double shield which had Sigma over a 30% pickrate and Orisa behind him in the 20’s
Right now, 6/8 tanks are the closest to each other in pickrate for the first time in over a year, maybe even longer. I’m not sure what there is to debate about
That’s true we did have hero bans but that ended quite awhile ago & it didn’t get rid of double shield nearly often enough. The only reason we saw anything besides double shield was because of hero bans, which just goes to show how strong Sig/Orisa were in comparison to other comps. I think we had like, 2 weeks, maybe a month of “Rein jail”? For most of the past year (until it was nerfed) double shield was meta.
This is really all that matters.
Can you link me this? Last I checked pickrates during double shield Sigma was over 30% and Orisa was in the 20’s. That doesn’t leave enough room for another 4 tanks to have 11% or more pickrate &a 5th at 10%
6/8 having 11% or more pickrate is a lot more balanced than 3/8. The top 2 or 3 picks being far ahead of the rest is a sign of imbalance.
It is equally ludicrous if not outright to deceitful to insinuate that the winrate of heroes with a pickrate at or below 1% (Orisa & Sigma currently) are accurate or relevant. Involving their currently really low winrate helps to prove whatever point you’re trying to make using a winrate spread, but it isn’t consistent with what I understand is a consensus when it comes to looking at stats. Bastion, Torb & Sym have had some of the highest winrates in the game while having low pickrates. Is that reflective of them being really strong heroes, even though their pickrate is very low? Or do we say “winrate is skewed, pickrate is too low”? Either winrate is a valuable stat with low pickrate heroes, or it isn’t. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen you advocate for the latter.
I think I’ve said multiple times now that Sigma & Orisa’s pickrates during double shield were very similar to the pickrates Hog & Zarya had during Hog/Zar meta. Sig & Hog in the 30’s, Orisa & Zarya in the 20’s. The Hog/Zar meta is mostly irrelevant, that’s just what those pictures are based off of (28 days ago)
I’m waiting to hear what period of time you were referring to. Double shield did not have good tank balance, at all. And it was not even close to the balance we have now. I’ve said it multiple times, I’ll say it again. 6/8 tanks are being played consistently right now. 2/8 were played consistently during double shield, with some variation, but not nearly as much as right now. I don’t see how you could possibly argue that double shield had “considerably better tank balance” compared to now, so I’m only guessing you’re talking about a different meta which is what I’m waiting to hear
Yes, we should appauld blizzard for nerfing hog so now he has a below 50% winrate in every rank within a week. Wouldnt want to take those nerfs in baby steps. Just ping pong tank picks every couple of months, will really motivate players to want to play tanks.
Not too sure what Blizz can do about that or what the community expects to be done about it tbh. Rein/Zar is the most popular in low-mid ranks because they’re easy to pick up, but once you get to the skill level of GM+ players Rein/Zar isn’t the best. It’s more of a skill issue than a balance issue
Players are expected to play the entry level/lower skill floor heroes & as they get better at the game they can branch out to more difficult but more powerful heroes. Hence Rein/Zar in mid-low ranks and Dive/Zar in high ranks
mistake which was putting hog on steroids.
My profile is public after all. I’m not OWL, but I was/am most certainly playing with GM’s on a regular basis
It’s so much better now though