I know plenty of people with 60% and above win averages that are at a lower SR than when they started, the reason? Well the game decided their MMR was lower than their SR so they were rewarded fewer points for wins than they were penalized for losses. It’s more common than you think.
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Wow it’s almost like just playing games doesn’t mean you improved. SR is skill rating not win rating. If you haven’t improved then why would you expect your SR to go up?
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I don’t think you fully understand english, or you yourself are being hypocritical here, but I will leave it at that you simply do not grasp the idea of trolling by posting a off-topic tangent ABOUT TROLLING in a thread that has absolutely nothing to do with trolling… in an attempt to get this exact response out of me. But I degress and will address your points in a civilized manner.
You do realize with the LFG feature that has been added that has also directly coincides with my drop that I have every right to expect my SR to be accurate while grouping up in the system designed by the devs.
No, what has been stated in the past that the matchmaker has a difficult time finding balanced matches in large SR gapped groups. Not that the SR system penalizes you for playing in a group. Please reread Mercer’s post about the SR system.
Also, having a ~250 SR gap in terms of the matchmaker with my friends is within the minimium LFG search. Grouping with a 2200 friend when I am at 2400 is not a large gap.
Not deranked. Playing on an alt that he played and it had him placed in 2600. That is how messed up the system is… it placed a GM player in plat on a new account. This isn’t some GM playing on a silver account, nor did anything he do was bannable.
Nor would it even be necessary if Bliz would have they system correct.
Finally… my title of being rigged is perfectly reasonable.
Rigged - slang - 1. The term rigged is employed to explain situations where unjust advantages receive to at least one side of a conflict.2. Describes along side it of the a conflict that holds an unfair benefit.
I have described proof that there is something in the SR system that is unfairly pulling my account down. A skill rating that should be to determine my ability to win a particular match. It is unfair to earn an unfair amount of points that goes against exactly how the devs have described how the SR system works. My ability to win games has been displayed by my account history, yet for some reason… be it grouping, or my hero choice is dragging my MMR down faster then my win-rate shows should be happening.
There is something going on that is thus making games in which I solo q unfairly tilted in my favor because the matchmaker has me artificially lowered farther then my skill level has demenstrated.
The system being rigged is an appropriate discription of what my results from my two accounts show.
You know what’s the amazing thing about data? Thanks for providing “your ult” account that’s in diamond. The account that hasn’t been played in 5 months, that plays only placement matches each season. That has completely different play patterns to what you have on your main account. You say you’ve had 100s of games on that account, but that account hasn’t played more than 12 games per season.
Normally when a person hits lvl 25 on a smurf account in order to be able to play competitive mode, they don’t stop playing that account for a month. Most people also don’t play Competitive just for 10 games and quit playing that account for months specially if they win all of their initial placements.
Please unlock the account so we can see more data.
Back to my story, I couldn’t get lower than mid Gold using my left hand because my game sense was at a much higher level. Before switching hands, I never played her. I constantly lost track of players while I tried to focus my beam, I had to think about every action I made instead of instinctively doing it. What I was saying is that in my diamond games my impact wasn’t much, just enough to know when to use TP or shield Gen, and basic turret tactics.
It’s a lot harder to aim with a controller than it is with a mouse. Console 2k SR hitscan does not equal PC 2k SR hitscan. If it’s game sense hero like Symmetra that’s going to be about the same skill in both system, except that you’re more likely to be killed by a 2k PC player than a 2k Console player based on accuracy. That’s why torn is popular in console, even though he probably requires the most skill when it comes to aiming his main gun, his turret does wonders for those who can’t use the main gun. Basically for low skill players.
I really want to see ASymmPalLife unlocked or you’ve been trolling hard.
Play Brigette and never have to worry about SR ever again!
Umm… You might want to double check your math. 11+4 does not = 14.
So you went 15-15 and lost 3 SR. Sounds about right?
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I hate calling people trolls, I really do. I would prefer it not fit in this case, but your title is so far removed from your content that it’s hard to take it any other way.
Plus, I think anyone that reads my post with context would know that trolling isn’t my intent. I’m trying, as kindly as I can, let you know the effect your post is having. Whether you yourself are intentionally trolling (and to be especially clear, I do NOT think that’s your intent), your title is about as trollish as one can get, especially on these forums.
Honestly, you’ve been around awhile Puck. You really should know better.
I do realize you have every right to this. I get it. But you need to understand that there are design choices that are mutually exclusive. You can’t just allow anyone to group with anybody and expect the ranking to work at all. You can’t restrict comp to SoloQ only and expect people to be happy playing a social game without their friends.
So a compromise was made, 1000SR differential max. This distorts how the SR system works. We know this, it makes it really hard to find matching groups. Matching groups are what is needed to accurately rank. It’s even worse when you group with the same disparate group frequently.
You’re not “penalized” for being in a disparate group. The way you in particular have admitted to playing, in a disparate group, as the highest member, but playing heroes that rely a lot on the team, and knowing that you can DPS your way up to another higher rank solo makes your situation particularly prone to inconsistencies. Rather than thinking that you’re a Diamond player stuck in Gold, you should think of yourself as a Diamond soloQ player that plays in a team that is in Gold. There’s nothing inherently wrong with that…but don’t come complaining as there’s nothing to complain about.
I sympathize, actually. I think having solo and team be the same SR is a tragedy. But instead of realizing that you actually have 2 skill levels, the one with your group and the one on your own, you think the system should have some magic ability to discern your Symmetra Diamondness out of your Gold level Mercy teamplay?
Get real, man. You’re being unreasonable.
So while it’s true that you have a right to expect your ranking is accurate, your expectation of what accurate means is absurd. You can’t do this:
and expect this:
The truth is that you might deserve both SRs and both are valid. Welcome to the real world where things are hard to measure and context counts.
First, this gem is rich from someone who accused me of not understanding English. You clearly copy/pasted this from UrbanDictionary (not a real dictionary, btw) and didn’t even notice the horrible grammatical and spelling errors that gives it zero credibility (or even readability). So let me copy/paste some real definitions.
Nothing you state is rigged as per these definitions. Really, even your own definition only fits “rigged” because you think it’s “unjust”, it could be unjust but not be rigged. I’d love a system that could somehow divine from the ether a person’s “TrueSkill”, but the best anyone’s come up with is this one and it does have its blind spots. You seem to think it should “know” but it’s still unjustly keeping you down. Just, no.
The only reason you think you deserve more based on your win-rate is because you don’t understand how the system works. I don’t think you’re incapable of understanding, but for some reason you conspiracy theorists simply don’t want to believe you are responsible for your own decisions, choices, and results. You certainly don’t want to simply ask questions, like, “How could it be that I have this win-rate and these SR changes?” (We would need starting and ending SR for each season and overall win rates for those seasons to even begin…that would be nice, thank you. Your claims, if true, are interesting, just not proof of rigging.)
Yeah, we’ve all seen the video. There’s a sequel too, since you like that channel so much. I like the guy too. He’s funny, but he isn’t some genius. Brigitte actually required someone to be good with her to climb, and lo-and-behold, bad players have not climbed with her.
Have you played her to masters yet? You know that she requires a lot of game sense, right? A player with a ton of game sense, but bad mechanics might stay in plat forever by only picking high mechanical-skill heroes and/or only team-oriented supports. A player with masters-level game sense who plays Brigitte to an 88% win rate will climb. Have you done it yet? If not, then why not? Shouldn’t it easily be reproduced by all players who try it?
The fact is that urnotjustin, the guy who made the video, was probably always a high diamond/low master’s caliber player based on game sense, but not as much with mechanical skill. He didn’t think he belonged there based on his mechanics, but he definitely made decisions as Brigitte that lower Elo players would not. He also never cared about SR or competitive mode whatsoever, so he played with his friends and screwed around. Why didn’t his friends also all make masters playing Brigitte? Why were they still stuck in plat, when their best friend obviously found the magic solution to all the matchmaker’s problems?
I’m not going to tell you that everyone’s rank is accurate, and you belong where you are, because that’s likely not true at all. Until each player on the ladder plays 100s of games each season, the majority are not accurately ranked. People that should climb don’t usually because they don’t play enough. Its a huge grind to climb for everyone, and it took even pros doing bronze to GM runs hundreds and hundreds of games. Most people don’t play that much, so they stagnate. The same goes for higher ranked players that deserve to drop, except it’s far easier to maintain a rank than rank up. Bad players can be carried 50% of the time and will remain in their rank, because the matchmaker now thinks they belong there, especially without PBSR dropping them down. That’s also a thing many players won’t tell you. No PBSR means bad players don’t drop.
Anyway, my point is that you still need the high elo game sense to win at all with the flavor of the month OP hero, and bad players don’t have that. They dont self critic, they dont look at vod reviews, they dont watch videos of coaches, they don’t study the game and learn the intricacies, they dont fix their mistakes, they don’t learn to adapt with their team comps, they don’t do anything except play like bots. That’s why they never grow.
People are lazy AF and think they deserve higher ranks without putting in the effort. It takes a ton of unfun grinding and a ton of knowledge only gained through putting in the time to learn it, and most of the playerbase does not do this. That’s why playing some hero like Brigitte won’t automatically rank them up. Better players outthink, outskill, and outplay them too much to let their slight advantage mean anything. If she was so easy to rank up with, I suspect you’d have done it too. You haven’t though, have you? Care to give an excuse as to why?
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Nah, not gonna bother unlocking that account as there isn’t a point. I don’t use it anymore…
I didn’t say I played 100s… only that I’ve played about a 100 on that account. I always stated I never played much on that account, but I do have a large enough sampling of comp games and a continued upward trend to say that I wasn’t wrongly placed that high.
Nothing in the stats on that account will change your opinion or belief that I didn’t earn diamond rank… on a limited hero pool in which I have already clearly stated is all I’m good enough on to place diamond. It is also why i’ve never stated I “belong” in diamond… only plat where I’ve always been before s11 when I started LFG at least half my matches and started dropping like a rock.
It also clearly shows that had I played more, I probably would have reached masters. Had Symm not been banned from comp early in s10, I probably would have hit masters. Like I said before… I lost all desire to try and be the best Symm when they announced her proposed changes and even more so when they revealed them on the ptr.
So far, nothing I’ve said has been false or misleading.
This isn’t the thread to debate mouse v controller. tldr I don’t agree with it as it is an input preference that has more to do with an individual’s motor skills and a gross vs micro muscle movement and memory. Maybe we can start another thread and debate that further, I wouldn’t be opposed to that, but I don’t want to derail this thread with a pc vs console debate.
Your story is an interesting one and does help showcase the wide disparity of “skills” that it takes to be successful in OW. Some people can get to diamond on pure mechanics… some can do it via gamesense. Some people have a avg level in both.
There is too many factors in the game to distinguish how you contributed to the win. But the only one that is really measure in pbsr is stat padding. When in reality… in a team based game, the ability to win should be really the only true determining factor. The rest will balance itself out.
Pbsr isn’t bad… but if it isn’t properly balanced for ALL characters in a way that promotes and accommodates flexing and grouping (arguably the 2 major tenants of this game)… then it falls apart.
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You keep saying LFG caused all your losses, but you’re good in SoloQ. What this tells me is you have no idea how to play in a team environment, you have no awareness of your teammates, and you play LFG exactly the same as soloQ, which is wrong. SoloQ promotes selfish, lone wolf play, but thats not good play. It may get you by in gold or plat, but at some point, you need to learn how to enable teammates and play as a team. You will never do so though, because you can’t be self critical enough to fix your mistakes. Your ego makes you a bad player. You are nowhere near as good as you think you are, and the sooner you accept that, the sooner you’ll try learning and growing to get to where you want to be.
Case in point, someone brought up your terrible stats. You, of course, defend them with excuses, being unable to admit you aren’t that great. You claim you won’t heal specific teammates as mercy, but you’ll attach to some dps player all game to damage boost! Yeah, that means you’re a bad mercy player. Good ones do both easily, and they don’t die anywhere near as much as you do. Dying that much shows you have terrible game sense and are always out of position. The same goes with Lucio, symettra, and any other hero you play. You just die and die and die and blame the system for your poor pbsr, rather than look at what you can improve on. You defend your bad playstyle rather than learn to have a better one. You defend your bad stats by saying youre great in others, as if that matters beyond telling you exactly what you need to improve on. Its common sense, but your ego is too large to accept it.
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I’ve already stated this in my OP. But lets see a lil more in depth
s4 S~1750 f: 2500 75-55-4 (Symm 16 (73%win), Mercy 7(33%, Dva 4hrs (49%))
s5 S-? f: 2699 high: 2775 151-123-9 Symm 31 (60%), Mercy 10(44%), Dva 4(45%)
s6 S-2784 (7-3) f: 2550 high 2843 64-55-4 Symm 13h(62%), Mercy 4h 53%, dva 2h(42%)
s7 s-2614(6-4) f: 2555 high: 2728 64-60-3 Symm 10h(56%), mercy 6(57%), Orisa 2h (27%)
s8 s-2651(8-2) f:2522 h: 2681 55-51-3 Symm 9h(60%), Mercy 4h(48%), Orisa 2h(41%)
s9 s-? f: 2652 (high) 13-7 Symm 2(75%), Mercy 1h (70%)
s10 s-? f:2657* (high) 11-10 Symm 2h(72%), Mercy 1h(35%)
s11 s~2460(3-7) f:2262 h: 2502 66-68-2* Symm 10h(58%), Mercy 8h (55%), Lucio 2h(40%)
s12 s2234(6-5) (high) current 2095 25-28-1
*previously estimated at 2647 and 67-68-1 but when looking it up in game at home they were a number off
I mean, I don’t know what you are going to gleem from all of that outside of what I’ve already posted… except it shows that i’ve played in plat almost my entire time except my first season where I climbed from silver like I said after starting the game then in S11 something happened.
Besides the fact that you come off very hostile… posting on your smurf instead of your main… What that tells me is that you have a main that is lower rank, but you want to flame me. But I will entertain your points.
LFG randoms, if you’ve never done it before, let me help enlighten you what kind of teams you get.
The LFG people you end up with ARE solo Q people that play like solo Q. This is fine when you go up against another 6 stack that is also built from LFG, you don’t have to worry about legacy communication. Of course, the group also only stays together if you win. You lose? rinse and repeat. No time to build a strategy over long term play beyond that one game you lose.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the communication and level of coordination one gets in gold LFG is only about as good as solo q with everyone having mics. You get some callouts, but no one follows strats.
It is Solo q, but with a higher potential not to have leavers and no mics.
If you happen to run up against another group that has been playing together for awhile, they have better synergy, or they are just better… which happens a lot more frequently then if you solo q. You simply just lose.
Frankly it is no way the LFG’s fault that my friend forms groups like that… he has control over the kind of teammates we get. We get stuck into these 2-2-2 comps and often get silvers in the game that also lowers the group rating. Very rarely I get a group in which I am not the higher then the group SR.
So as you can see, the LFG puts you against stronger more coordinated opponents but you get the same solo q.
Now mind you, that I only used it as an example of why I was losing. The games are considerably harder then solo q, but guess what? the SR is the same SR. So you have two different difficulties but the same system trying to determine “skill”.
The example showed that the way that the LFG does, does not take in consideration my individual skill. My individual skill would be closer to how I can perform in solo q, competing against others solo q. In this way it is incorrectly rigged against LFG and grouping up, despite assurances from the devs that grouping up as no effect on SR gains. It is patently false.
When I solo q, which is how the ranking is based on… I am easily under ranked. This tells me that if I can easily win in solo q… then I am being punished very harshly for grouping up… even though the level of competition @2100 group is different then solo q.
It is like saying that a plat player should have the same stats playing in diamond then he would playing in plat solo q.
This is factually incorrect. According to Omnic meta, my deaths are actually better then 63% of gold players on symm, 75% mercy, 75% lucio, 57% Moira, 80% brig, and 83% on ana.
As you can see, my positioning and my “constant deaths” are not a hinderence to my team. My performance when compared to the avg gold players is well above avg.
This leads one to better conclude that my game sense and awareness is above my rank. This while also performing in “hard queue”.
As you have never played with me before… you do not know how well I perform in enabling my team. I actively call out and also lay out strategies to follow to get the most out of Symm. One cannot make your team use the TP… but I’m still above 56% of symm players in gold… with all my other stats abover the 60%.
Even with my healing 20% lower then avg, my defensive assists is still avg… meaning I am healing critical active teammates, not padding my healing stat on tanks or unnecessary healing, while doing 145% more dmg boosted then the avg mercy. This is the eptitomy of team enabling on mercy.
I am NOT underperforming on my heroes at my rank. I have no idea where you people get this idea from that my stats are poor.
You don’t want to unlock or post on that account because you don’t want to or can’t? I’m not only looking into how well you played in one account and how bad you did on the other as in stats per min, which does tell a lot. Im looking at your playing pattern which makes no sense to how you normally play. Why quit before masters when you basically have an 80% win rate? When 4 months before you had a 53% win rate. You were 100 points away from masters. Even if you balanced out your win rate to 70% over 47 game, why would you stop playing? There was nothing stopping you from hitting masters, you would have made it in another 7 games at your rate.
You show the classic signs of a person that’s addicted to playing the game, so why would you stop? Why would you have a break in between seasons that are long. There are so many inconsistencies in how you play one account versus the other.
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I’ve already explained all of this for you. Unlocking it is a waste of time and pointless.
I played and created that account for a confidence boost. Thats all I needed from it.
When you play Symm so much and I saw even back then the inconsistancies in the SR gains… and thought it was my MMR always trying to pull myself down. You combine that with everyone harassing you for playing your fav character because “she sucks” it gets to drain on you after awhile.
i did only play on it sparingly. It was just a thing to guage to me, that I could play at a higher level… So I placed on it… and it was something like 2-300 higher then my account was at the time… and that was back when placements knocked you down like 200 Sr.
When the season 6 changes went through, that account went and placed in diamond. I was like dang… sweet… Played and held my own there. Every season… getting a little higher and higher… 3100, then 3200… all the way up to 3400… which I ran out of season.
I did kick myself… maybe if I played more games on that account instead of my main, I coulda gotten it to masters… it especially felt that way when my last session I was 9-2.
But then the Symm changes were announced… and I lost ALL motivation. They literally were deleting my fav character. I felt betrayed (still do, new symm is just not as impactful and her playstyle has changed)
You could see it in my main also… I just stopped playing comp that much. Just decided to play mystery heroes. No point in playing comp just to grind SR when the devs are just going to delete your character. It wasn’t a rework… it was a flat out deletion and replacement. Combine that with there being something seriously wrong with the system.
Now, to your point in seeing the account. That account hasn’t had issues. Not the point of the thread. I used that account as an example of my ability to play the game and win at a “higher level” then what the system has on this account. My main isn’t any different… was symm on Asymmpallife, just like I’ve put in just about 100hrs in comp on Symm on this one. I’ve always been labeled a Symm one-trick on both accounts… doesn’t bother me.
I have not been winning… so i should be dropping. I have never contested that. I am contesting that the SR is forcing me to drop unjustly even faster then I should. This account… proven to win in plat… all of a sudden starts dropping like a rock at a faster rate then my win rate suggests I should be.
Nothing about my alt account will show you that… because frankly… Asymmpallife has a completely different MMR and is not hampered by the legacy MMR trying to pull me down, nor is it hampered by pbsr.
The “stats” you want to see… are far worse then on this account. I don’t know what they are exactly… but I know the Etd ratio was under 2.0 whereas my etd on this account for Symm was 2.27 or something like that before the increase in her dmg. Every stat on that account was worst on that diamond account then on this one.
I will not bother to go log into that account just so you can look at exactly the same stats that I’ve told you. It does nothing to explain my drop on this account, nor does it explain why I’ve always struggled with pbsr and my MMR on THIS account.
My friend, he has created like 4-5 accounts… and they all end up around the same 2100-2300 range. But he doesn’t play Symm. His oldest account… also has a problem rising… however he is hampered by well… him. All his additional accounts show that he really is a low gold player.
I literally cannot even play in the same game as myself. I don’t throw on this account… and main is the same. My playstyle… or how I play symm… is the same (it only varied based on the playstyle differences and team ability between plat and diamond)
How is that right? The system might be fine picking up how a lot of dps play… just as a raw elim and death ratio… and ult usage… and playing it like deathmatch. But trying to learn what skills it actually takes to win on some heroes…
Well, it just makes the whole system not work properly.
For example… when mercy changed… and people were getting huge SR gains because ppl went from like 8 rezs per game to 20. Bunch of boosted mercy mains… Or when the SR glitch was found in Orisa that gave you huge gains for assists (basically you spammed halt and hope a teammate killed them)…
You are just realizing this now?
I watch YouTube vids and people get 90 SR from a win, -5 for a loss. I’m the complete opposite. No clue.
lols my bad chief (20 chars)
There is something weird with the SR system. I honestly wish it was just a flat rate win/loss. Mmr complicates things enough.
Nothing is more disheartening to go 7 rounds in a match and only gain 15 SR from it. Lose the next match and lose 25 SR seems balanced to me.
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I had a super rough season, once I finally got back to a 50% W/L ratio I had climbed 300 SR
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Current record
1673W-1656L-116 Tied
Initial Placements: 1990
Career Low: 1532
Career High: 3182
Current SR: 3158
My win percentage is BARELY over 50, not even 51%, and yet I’ve still gained over 1000 SR… Looks like PBSR is working fine to me, those that do better, climb higher
Sitting at a +17 and I’m up 1168 SR
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Similarly, this happens to me and is one of the reasons I don’t play much. You reach master/high diamond, stop playing, gradually decline to 3000, and when a new season starts the system tries to readjust and find out where you should be placed at, going on a losing streak and working your way back up to where you belong. The matchmaking system has been extremely flawed for 12 seasons now and they need to get rid of placement matches in general. Idk how they don’t see why their system sucks so much, lol.
Unbalanced game where arrows with large abnormal hitboxes are stronger than bullets with tiny hitboxes and lopsided matchmaking with a horrible lack of thought system. Their system also makes smurfing easy.
I usually play to hit diamond then stop playing the rest of the season because it’s not worth it. It’s not worth going on a losing streak to 2500 having to work ones way back up.