Please read this if you think it's okay for Sym to be underpowered because she's "niche"

Basically, the devs acknowledged that it was inevitable that people would pick and choose mains (every system in the game, even aesthetically, supports maining) and have actively been making changes to make heroes less niche. Jeff specifically states here that he likes the direction things evolved in.

Being less niche was an explicit goal of Symmetra’s 3.0 rework.

So to say “she’s just niche only play her sometimes” is dismissive of a significant chunk of the playerbase and contrary to intended design.

If a person can’t main Sym as much as they can main Soldier, McCree, Doomfist or whoever else, it means that Sym needs changes. Full stop.


Are you referring to 1tricks?
Because maiming doesn’t mean you can play other heroes when your pick isn’t optimal

For example
I’m a genji main
But if I don’t have an ana on my team I will switch to McCree

Maining doesn’t mean you only play that hero all the time and it being good every single time

No, nobody expects that. I’m talking about maining.


And I think that goal was accomplished. She serves a different purpose now and can be used in more situations. That isn’t to say that she isn’t still niche, but I find it hard to believe that any number buffs will make her less niche, she’ll just tip into being overused again and then nerfed.

Sym 4.0 anyone?

I mean, the way I see it, some heroes will always be situational, no matter how many changes are made for them. At a certain point there’s only so many reworks a hero should go through, because eventually, there will be other heroes to focus on.

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here’s the difference in entitled hero main perspective vs not entitled hero main perspective:

someone such as yourself who mains a hero that’s at least viable in nearly every situation assumes the subject matter is about being optimal/good in every situation, when in actuality we’re talking about being viable (i.e. not simply being trash or a throw) in more situations.

like with your example, mccree can reasonably work in just about any map and against most comps. Genji can reasonably work without an ana in ladder and against most comps as well. He may not be “optimal” without nano blade (which lets face it, is the only reason why people say genji synergises with an ana), he’s not immediately a throw without an ana. not to mention there are other sources of damage boosts in the game.

sym? with infinite tp nerf, you either play her in double shield death ball or rein zarya deathball just to be viable or nothing.

niche should be “good at something(s), mediocre at others, and terrible at some things” not “above average at something, terrible at the rest”. like moira’s or brig’s niche of aoe healing is a pretty good example of a healthy niche: not too narrow, not too broad, not too skewed, workable in other comps that aren’t deathball.

it was until infinite tp. infinite tp took out sym’s way to get herself in and out of her effective range without huge hero down times so now she’s like pre3.0 rework in being team dependent in order to get value. she literally plays more similar to pre3.0 sym because of infinite tp too.


i 100% agree, though i bet we would disagree on how that was achieved.

its simple for torb as well. auto aim turrets go by by.

then symm can have more range and damage primary, and maybe even get her shield back.

torb could get his armor packs back and have a less wonkey primary with more ammo. AND his hammer could do 70 damage like a minny rein!!

I really don’t get what they were thinking when they added Abilities like Primary Fire and Teleporter during a rework that was supposed to make Sym LESS niche.

This often makes me wonder if it was really meant to fix her problems, or to make Genji Mains happy…
(I don’t think it was, but I do believe it was rushed!)


Just because a hero isn’t meta, doesn’t mean they are weak. In fact, it is often the case is that when they do suddenly become meta due to some discovered synergy or play style, they are often found to be OP.

While I think Sym 2.0 was more useful in more situations, especially thanks to Shield Generator and her barrier, it is true that Sym 3.0 cannot be balanced with number buffs. Sym 4.0 is innevitable and I hope she comes soon…and better than 3.0!

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Unfortunatly, this never happend with Sym in 4 Years… Sym 3.0 is just no good.


I agree on primary, disagree on tp. finite tp definitely made sym3.0 more flexible and dynamic in letting her get around more without needing so much team consent/babysitting.

like with old sym, if you wanted to get primary charge, flank, or put turrets further up/behind the enemy, you really needed your team to come through with a push to claim space and flank route access and to distract them for you to do any of that, especially when switching between those strats too. whereas finite tp was just like “ok team, you do your thing, I’mma do mine :wave: brb”.

And the old cast frequency was at a pretty good balance point of not too frequent which still needed commitment to a placement, but not so infrequent that switching gears was unreasonable (unlike now).


The problem is Symmetra can go many ways to become the hero we want her to be it’s hard to pinpoint where she SHOULD go.

Many want her to be close range focused with Beam buffs, HP buffs, defensive passives and shield regen vampirism

Others want ranged options with Orb buffs, Teleporter changes and range increases.

Then you got those who want the builder route with Turrets, different building ideas and UI changes.

Lastly you got the conservatives who want reverts to 2.0

As a Dev it’s hard to know where to take Symmetra when the community is so divided on where they want Symmetra to go.

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heyyyy wait a minute, did you use me as the example?


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As someone who’s been enjoying Torb: I hope Sym gets more love and gets out of Niche Hell, for the sake of her fans. :slight_smile:


niche doesn’t mean underpowered, in fact it means overpowered in certain situations and less useful in the rest than the general all rounder

maining a specialist is never a good idea even if they are overpowered A F in their field

it’s like being a javelin specialist complaining they can’t win a decathlon, but they can throw a javelin 50% further than any other decathlete

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Sadly niche means terrible in 90% of the games and okay in 10% of the games.
Bastion, Torb and Sym were meant to be niche but actually they are F-Tier since release and don’t get even played in those situations when they are supposed to be strong because other heroes can still do their job better.

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It’s almost like they shouldn’t have taken her and butchered her kit in the first place, splitting her player base into ‘those that liked her to begin with and miss that’ and ‘people who enjoy the new entirely different kit’. Honestly the character rework has been such a huge flop with Sym that I doubt they’ll ever do it again, they might tweak or change things but I’d be surprised if they full on changed all the abilities for a character ever again. They basically can’t win no matter what they do now, and it’s a problem that they caused 100%.

Problem is I don’t think anyone all that smart is at the helm. We’ll probably get a Sym rework that takes away her turrets and gives her some craptastic other ability, because people don’t like playing against turrets and Blizzard has the spine of a tube worm when it comes to the integrity of what they created.


But they did accomplish what they we’re aiming for, which was to make Symmetra 3.0’s fundamental design less niche…

She has always had a higher pick rate than 2.0, one of the most balanced situational heroes in this game’s history, even in her numerically underpowered state…


Ehhh, that’s what was true with Symmetra 2.0… Symmetra 3.0 is not even close to needing a rework at the moment and the fact that she became actually balanced with just a bug fix if anything else for two weeks before she was gutted again is nothing but proof of that…

Sorry to upset you, but the devs officially said a few months ago that they have no planned reworks for heroes at the moment…

Yeah… Not even close… :man_facepalming::man_facepalming:

Have you considered the goal was to just make her ‘situational’ instead of ‘Highly situational’?

I mean she is stronger on attack than before, and she is viable more on defense, just not everywhere.

I mean he makes it pretty clear he want situational heroes even though it’s naive.

What i don’t get is why people are so insistent on using a chopstick, to eat cereal. You would think that after using a chopstick in this way for even 15 mins a person will just got get a spoon, or drink from the bowl.

Or it means your examples need some toning down.

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