Please read this if you think it's okay for Sym to be underpowered because she's "niche"

With the exception of the Crazy Sigma/Orisa Meta that allowed Sym to be good because she is the only DPS with infinite Ammo, her pickrate has ALWAYS been worse than 2.0’s. 2.0 had consistent 1.6-2% while Sym 3.0 hasnt even gotten to 1%.
Your statement is simply false, judging by the fact that Overbuff is the only source of pickrates available to Players.

No, they didnt. As I explained above, Teleporter and current Primary are abseloutly designed to be the most-niche abilities in Overwatch’s history.
Teleporter only works on 2 maps. Hanamura and Horizon.
Primary only worked against ONE tank DUO and that niche was removed with the Barrier Nerfs.

That is the excact meaning of Niche. The more “niche” something is, the less situations it has to shine but this isnt much of a problem if it can do decent in other situations and vice versa.
However, current Primary and Teleporter dont have many situations and are widely ignored if not in this niche (Secondary only/TP at spawn)
2.0 Photon Barrier was good on every map and against most enemy comps.
Shield Generator was good on many maps and on bad maps it still worked. Same for Team Comps. This is an example of a well-done niche ability.

Well, Sym 2.0 never got any balance adjustments. Not even lower CD on Turrets or Barrier. How knows what Blizz tried themselves, but nothing was ever available for the community. I think a slight rework bringing 3.0’s Turrets and a more Moira-like Beam would’ve been enough.
And just like I stated above, Sym 3.0 was never viable. She was only played because there had to be a DPS and she was the only one who could keep shoting the barriers without reload. A very specific circumstance for a very niche and underpowered hero. Fun Fact: Sym 2.0 would’ve been stronger than 3.0 in this Meta thanks to the 3rd Barrier in the team and Shield Generator for even more survivability (charged in 3 seconds thanks to her piercing Orbs). With and without her nerfs, she would be awful in the current Meta or any other Meta besides Double Barrier Spam from original Sigma.

“Few Months” was after Torb’s Rework. Sym’s rework was very new and the game also has shifted since then. (Role Queue, Barrier Nerfs, ectr.). Both Symmetra and Bastion will not be released into Ow2 in their current form if the game is supposed to be a success.

It’s okay if you prefer Sym 3.0, I get you and I’d love to see 2.0 and 3.0 as 2 seperate heroes or the Ultimate Sym 2.5 with the best of both Kits, like Lock-On beam with the Barrier Perks, Choice Ult between current and Shield Generator, ectr.
Just please dont say something like “She was viable before her nerfs” or “She always had a higher pickrate than 2.0” because it is just false.
I hope the Devs come up with a solution to make both 2.0 and 3.0 community happy!

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Yes because a happy sym main being talked down by mains of common hero (Ashe, McCree, Hanzo, Soldier, Tracer) is fine because of the unviability they possess or dont have the tools to be able to prove themselves.

We’ve basically come full circle with Symmetra. And still somehow, by some twisted design of fate and stupidity, she and her playerbase are in an a more jarring state than before.

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Here’s my stance on Sym as a Doomfist main. Sym should be a front-line brawler while having utility support tools alongside her kit. Problem is, her turrets are way too op in the very low ranks while being a potato health mildly annoyance tool for the upper ranks. She also struggles to get in the frontline because of her nonexistent survivability.

What she needs: More survivability and a more fluid utility kit. That could include: More HP, Lifesteal, Cooldown adjustments, more base damage with beam, and stronger turrets.

My ideas: Doomfist main advocates for Symmetra buffs

Fixing Symmetra is as simple as fine tuning some numbers, it’s honestly not hard for the devs to do.

Seriously just change her gun dps to 80/120/180, make it charge at a rate of 1 second, increase her ammo capacity and make Tp deploy faster with a 10 second cooldown.

These buffs aren’t even that huge since they hardly change the maximum value she can output, it just makes the average value she brings better since she’ll be more consistent

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Except she is actually used less than sym 2.0 and she does worse when she is used.

That’s the big sad the devs really failed with the direction of this rework. She was pretty nice at the start but the continued nerfs brought her to her worst spot ever

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That’s just more of the devs fault than anything though. They were tho ones that completely split the sym community with this rework. They literally just ignored the people that actually played her and just did their own thing

Unfortunately, concerning Symmetra 2.0’s stats (which are no longer available on Overbuff), this source says otherwise:

https://www.reddit.com/r/SymmetraMains/comments/9js0c2/update_on_symmetra_rework_measurement_success/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

(Symmetra 2.0 → 0.8% total win rate, Symmetra 3.0 → 0.86% total win rate during this month of being absolutely trash as always)…

I use my Teleporter successfully and for different reasons on all maps respectably…

I really don’t know what you’re saying here, even though I agree that said ability is the most effective in the above two maps that you included…

Once again, I charge up my primary weapon mainly from shields or Tanks and I’m able to delete every hero I want if I play carefully, while during the Double Shield META I could just shred everyone as a result of the META itself unfurtunately and that’s why it was toned down…

Maybe… You’re the one that can’t play Symmetra 3.0 really well? :thinking::thinking:

But if it can do decent in other situations as well then it can’t really be called as situational/niche in the first place…

Okay, that’s one ability… Symmetra 3.0 has both her Secondary Fire and her Ultimate if we follow this exact logic…

As I already said, if this certain ability can work on so many different situations as you’re somehow suggesting, then it’s fundamentally not niche/situational in the first place…

Well that would require significant damage nerfs to her primary on order to keep her in line with other such weapons, her Turrets would also have to be nerfed (either their number or their slowing mechanics)…

And besides all of the above, numerous fundamental design problems would still exist, mainly concerning her Teleporter Ultimate…

Symmetra 3.0 became via me and arguably balanced during the Double Shield META, but was mistaken as overpowered due to the META itself.

This is an extremely important distinction here…

Once again, I completely disagree with this statement…

They talked about this subject when OW2 was announced. They even said in that regard that if they were to do any other future hero rework, Bastion would be the first in line and not anybody else.

Oh, they will… As the devs themselves already said.

I get that, I love your intentions and I truly respect your love for Symmetra 2.0…

But that just won’t happen… Symmetra 2.0 was rightfully reworked due to fundamental design flaws and not because of anything else… There’s a reason for example why the devs have thankfully not tried anymore lock - on heroes after the 3.0 rework and the list goes on…

Symmetra 2.0 unfortunately isn’t coming back for numerous reasons and I think it’s just time to move on. I truly respect both your opinions and love for Symmetra 2.0, but the devs and I’m 1000% sure the majority of the player base chose that route and there’s nothing we can do about that.

What we can do though, is advocate for actually feasible concepts, such as old, reworked versions of heroes getting re - implemented in Workshop, Custom Games, maybe a special Arcade game mode, hell… Even in a special mission in Overwatch 2.0.

I’m sorry this was the reply you probably weren’t expecting, but I’m just trying to be as realistic as possible here :frowning:

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Perhaps Sym 2.0’s last pickrate was 0.8%. Probably because many Sym mains stopped playing (including me). Feels awful to play something that will go away soon. Did it with Bastion and suffered a lot.

If you’re good at it, you can get value out of anything. Just look at Kolorblind, who effectivly plays Bastion in Grandmaster in any comp. I’m just saying that, with the lack of barriers, her primary becomes less and less useful, both compared to the buffed orbs and other DPS weapons.

And I never said I’m good at Sym 3.0. I’m decent at best. There is a reason I’m still 1000 SR below my Sym 2.0 rank (3600->2600)

Her current secondary is defenetly equal to the Photon Barrier: It is weak compared to other DPS abilities, but by far the strongest and least niche part of Sym’s Kit.
Her Ultimate is probably equally situational as Shield Generator. Great on good maps, still works on bad maps.

WIth 2.0 Primary and 3.0 Turrets, their DPS should probably be tuned down a little bit.

That should’ve been removed during her 2.0 Rework. Shield Generator was stronger and better for the game.

I don’t believe she is coming back either. I just still miss her and I will keep fighting for her. Honestly, your reply was more kind than I expected. We might disagree on some stuff regarding both 2.0 and 3.0 such as viability, which one has design flaws and being more or less niche but we both only want the best for our hero.
I think at this point it would be the best solution to split these heroes. Give Sym 3.0’s kit to Sanjay who has a slightly bigger hitbox (McCree-like) and 250 HP (100/150 Shields) to get this buff out for 3.0 and Sym should get her 2.0 Kit. Maybe with some small buffs (8 second Cooldown on Barrier), maybe with no changes so she wont ruin Genji’s life. After all, with her pickrate and power level, Sym 2.0 didnt hurt anyone. And thanks to Shield Generator and her Barrier, she could work everywhere. I’d say Symmetra 2.0 OR 3.0 One-Trick on their worst map is still better than Pharah One-Trick on their worst map. ^^

Okay, that’s fair enough.

I totally agree with this, I just brought up that detail because I was pretty baffled on how two people can have such a different view on a single hero (you’re actually even better on Symmetra 3.0 than I as I’m just at 2500 SR on DPS :3 )

Once again, I can live with this take.

More than a little bit I would say lmao… :rofl:

Totally agreed.

Thank you a lot for your kind words. We really both want the best for the heroes we love and I still really admire your determination on the subject nonetheless :slight_smile:

Hmmm, what I say is… Who knows! Maybe Symmetra 2.0 could have even been the best version of the hero in this game’s history if she had received some huge damage mitigation changes (such as the one I talked about concerning her lock - on gun)! Most probably not pure buffs though, as I would personally consider Symmetra 2.0 as the most balanced niche/situational hero in this game’s history, something that I really respect.

Anyways though… Thank you for this conversation and for being so open to new ideas! I hope I had the same attitude as well… Have a nice rest of the day! :smiley:

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Defenetly! :slight_smile: Let’s hope they change Symmetra in a way that all Sym mains are happy!

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Does Widow need buffs if the team goes dive and she cant be played?

No. Sym is powerful at what she does.

Sym is already awesome, full stop.

Widow was so strong during dive meta she was picked over Genji.

Widow is applicable in a lot more situations than Sym.

What is it that you claim Sym is powerful at?

Ryze from LoL would like a word about “Only so many reworks a hero can go through.” That poor fool has had like 5.

I agree. Sym and Torb both sit at 56% and 57% win rate, the highest of all the DPS cast. Their pick rate is low, yes-- because they’re designed for specific maps and games. They arent generalists nor underpowered by any means, they just excel highly at what they’re designed for. Buffing sym would be a horrible idea, as she’d be too overpowered with how her kit currently works. She’d have to be reworked from the ground up to become a generalist.

I wouldn’t specifically call her underpowered - she is harder to get the value out of because she has to outplay rather than just force it because she’s restricted by effective range.

While being similarly powered in her own area of effect, she also in no iteration ever had much of an area of effect - so she is less viable far more often than other heroes who can adapt to mid to long range combat as well as being good in cQc. She’s a good hero WHEN SHE IS GOOD - but she can be a throw pick more often than not just because she doesn’t fit into anything bigger than cQc engages without being worse than any other hero.

TLDR; It’s not power level, it’s that she is inflexible and always has been across every iteration and that inflexibility hurts her in most matchups - to fix that means her core design needs to be changed away from an inflexible short range weapon.