I feel like that’s likely due to the abysmal pickrate for those heroes, making the only ones still playing them the nutty one tricks who can win with them despite how bad they are.
Is this true for Widowmaker and Hanzo as well? If so, can we expect them to be toned down eventually? Playing versus a sniper every match has been dreadful, I really enjoy high mobility heroes, and the caliber of snipers I play versus just deny me that fun in most matches I play, so I’m forced onto a barrier tank or Brigitte/Baptiste
Are these raw winrates or pickrate adjusted? Genji and especially Soldier have abysmal pickrates in GM. That means they are only picked in niche situations where they shine or by people who are REALLY good with them. People not so good with them flock to meta heroes so they don’t pull down the winrates. As such winrates of heroes with low pickrates don’t reflect their actual power level. Popular heroes on the contrary have misleading lower winrates as people picking fotm heroes pull the winrates down and also popular picks play against mirror picks where one has to lose, making the winrate gravitate towards 50%.
And this is your biggest mistake of them all. You’re comparing things statistically and analytically instead of being the people who PLAY the game and understand it, or at least consulting with players who do.
Yes. Genji might be the best winrate of all time for all we care about. But what your analytics are failing to make you realize is that only genji specialists and soldier specialists are the ones who still play those heroes while the majority of the playerbase gave up on them. You’re basically comparing winrates of players like necros for genji with the average of other dps players of that rank.
Here’s my suggestion and i hope someone takes their time to consider it.
Seek help. From professional and high end players. They can help. THEY WILL HELP. Even for free.
And what is their pickrate. Is there even enough people playing them to care?
All the devs play the game, like a lot, and the dev team is made up of players from every rank.
They also consult pro players and the general playerbase on Reddit and the forums.
So if this isn’t enough for you, which is a valid opinion if that’s what you want to stick with, then who should the devs consult in addition to everything else?
they claim they play the game. which i’m not sure if they do or don’t.
They CLAIM they consult pro players. While every pro player who commented about this sort of thing either says blizzard doesn’t listen to them, or says that blizzard had a conference like thing with professional to consult with them about balancing, and it’s been a long time since they responded or even bothered to check that. which results in anything i’m hearing pointing towards what i’m saying.
Plus, i’m seeing the balancing changes, and i’m seeing what blizzard’s doing and it’s not possible to imagine professional players had a say in most of these cases. They’re doing it on their own.
You can believe whatever you want to believe. But they’re not listening to anyone.
Jeff has hundreds of hours on tanks alone.
Listening and agreeing are not the same thing.
People are allowed to voice their opinions.
People are also going to be wrong sometimes.
I’d give them the benefit of the doubt on that one.
Its been a while since I’ve followed this kind of stuff but I see some changes asked for by pro’s. Can’t think of anything too recent because, again, I stopped watching stuff like YourOverwatch that reports on that stuff, but last I did Sombra was getting sacked by pro request and a Lucio pro was asking for some Lucio buffs which got more or less implemented in a few months.
They can’t listen to the pros all the time because the pros aren’t the only ones with concerns.
Well, recently every barrier besides Winston’s has been toned down so high ranks don’t have to worry as much about double barrier, and now D.va is getting a buff that doesn’t touch her spooky DM.
I think you believe what you want and don’t listen. As someone else has replied: Jeff is a dedicated tank main. He says since Role Que, he’s been experimenting with the other roles more, partially because of the separate sr feature: he thinks its fascinating.
You can’t be serious. You are honestly trying to pretend like genji and soldier are top tier. When the only reason they have good win% is because a small amount of players one trick them. What a joke. Do you even look at all the numbers? win rate + pick rate is what matters.
Not sure about internal stats, but overbuff has DVA with the second highest overall winrate and highest for tank in the GM category.
High winrate on low pick characters is nearly worthless as we always saw Torb, sym etc in the same situation.
It generally means that the hero is objectively bad or niche and is only being used in those specific situations or by one tricks.
There is no reason to use genji as doomfist and tracer are always better options.
There is no reason to use soldier as hanzo,mccree,widow,ashe are always a better option.
As for balancing in the lower bracket, what was with the Reaper lifesteal? cranking it up had zero effect(at the time) for upper bracket GOATS but made lower bracket unbearable for those players
I like him
like d.va buff and stats please bring me more lpl
also interesting that we got two Dev posts after I made a topic about using the forums more
You gotta make those threads more often
that’s what I’m saying XD
D-did a Dev just come in here and drop truth bombs me and others have been trying to say for over a year now…? Thanks, man! You rock!
Thank you for informing us. But please dont disregard the fact that MOST of the players in OW are low ranks. So I hope you guys keep this in mind. Nerf life steal thank you
This. This right here. This is exactly the reason why the game is slowly running underground and failing both as a competitive and balanced game. It’s understandable for someone with very little knowledge about the game to say that “the pick rate and win rate are decent so they must be good” because there are people that are uninformed but for a dev to say that just… you have to know more than ANYONE that there are reasons for why people play heroes other than their viability right? I mean Jeff himself said that they had no idea one-tricks would be as prevalent as they are. Win rates are subjective of that, if you play enough games with a very popular hero you’re going to get games that are easily winnable because the other team is tilted.
Not just that either, think about it like this: When you’re in GM, you’re playing with 5 other highly skilled players. They know the ins and out of the game, they have alts and smurfs and have carried many people before in unranked to GM games or leveling their alt/smurf. So is it suffice to say that they can easily carry a competent Genji or Soldier (especially when there’s only one)?
Genji and Soldier are so bad that they’re pretty much half a hero. Others can to their jobs much easier and much more efficiently and make it a full 6-man team but when you play Genji or Soldier it turns the team into a 5 1/2 man team. The characters aren’t good or balanced, I play Genji at a high masters/GM level and I CONSISTENTLY get games where the entire team is tilted from the start because I’m playing Genji. Doesn’t matter how well, I can pop off if I manage to do everything absolutely perfectly (which shouldn’t be the case, the margin for error is way too great for him compared to other heroes), but they don’t care because they’re mad. Even with practice, time, energy, hundreds of hours, I still can’t fix what’s inherently bad about his kit and why they both suffer.
If you think power creep isn’t a problem just look at Mei and how she can completely wall off someone and get a free pick, how her left-click can freeze an entire team, how her ult is just a won teamfight. There’s a reason why she’s good and it’s because over time, with everyone getting stronger and stronger, she got stronger and stronger too.
In all honesty the fact that the balance team can say that there’s “no such thing as power creep” is inherently wrong and extremely disheartening because the entire community can agree that it is most definitely an issue but the balance team seems to live in their own little bubble where they’re doing everything right and they’re perfect at their jobs.
Wait, but… oh no… yikes, you wanted to remove goats and couldn’t do it, you wanted to remove double shield and couldn’t do it, turns out that you’re NOT perfect and even worse, when the community tries to do your job for you by giving you GREAT suggestions like keeping orisa’s shield as-is and nerfing fortify damage mitigation you completely ignore it and it continues to be an issue.
If you just listened to the high-end competitive scene more I imagine things would be better. It has been in the past whenever the competitive scene happens to suggest changes and you implement them but then you stop and things get worse and worse.
If you realistically think making changes like increasing Genji shuriken count by 2 rounds is a proficient change to make the character viable again when his brother can have infinite ammo that’s high damage and a one-shot then just let us know now so we can officially uninstall this game already.
There is no dmg creep
Owl: one hanzo killing 5 people on the point by himself
One tracer killing all the team by himself
Widowmaker spawnkilling teams not letting them get out of spawn