her damage is super convenient but its super limited. its mechanically easy and fundamentally braindead so its should be limited in the same. she cant hs so she shouldn’t think about that so she shouldn’t benefit or gain from it. so shes easy. (not her but her damage). I dont think about symm because i think shes fun for people who think losing without winning is fun.
There is nothing braindead about symmetra.
2 Likes
I do want to understand actually because if you say you love something but you complain about it daily and would rather not play with it unless it’s completely changed, that’s just some very very twisted love, then you state that no one can be good at playing as her and refuse to commend those who actually put the effort on learning the hero, not too mention that if someone, let’s say me, says that they love the hero as it is you go out of your way to call them out and start showing your true colors, the color of hate
Look, the issue is simple, if you love sym, you accept her as she is right now, not because you’re a hater or anything but because, even if it’s hard for you to grasp, hey current iteration has a lot of advocates who enjoy dps sym, and yes blizz took her from you or whatever but the reality is that sym is what she is today, not what she was or will be, if you love the hero then use it, strategize, have fun with it and if you don’t sit back and let those who do enjoy her have a go
I said it in your thread and I’ll say it here, you do not represent the sym community nor the majority, there are quite a few of us who like the hero we have now a lot more than what we used to have in the support role, changes are welcome, blizz will do what blizz does but don’t come here saying that you love sym when you don’t care about other people’s relation with the hero that you so despise
Ah and for the record, if I say you hate something and you say that you love it, you don’t have to take my word for it, I assume you’re a grown human being and I have no hold over your mind, you do not need to convince me (not do I believe you either way) so just take this with a grain of salt, my stance is my stance and yours is yours, blizz will choose sometime in the future and that’s all there is
thats your truth but i fundamentally say you are right and wrong but also none.
You seem to be under the impression that I want support Sym or a revert. I don’t and never did. I want buffs to her current version… Sym 3.0 is my favorite Sym.
It’s actually funny that you’re putting an opinion that’s not mine into me and bashing me based on an opinion I don’t even have. Please evaluate yourself.
then you want fun. if thats what you want then saying that current is braindead is the way to make it fun.
That’s just hard to believe really, weren’t you the one who wanted piecing orbs, 6 melee turrets and auto lock back?
No. That’s not me. Jesus.
Again, you’re literally pasting someone else’s opinion on me and bashing me for it. Pretty gross lmao
Uhm of that’s the case I’ll just ask then, what is it that you want?
Numbers buffs to her current kit such as improved stage one primary fire damage and a slightly faster tp, and for her large hitbox to be looked at.
Sym is very weak imo, which could be okay if she provided something else to the team but she really doesn’t other than a potential Sneaky TP if every thing works out perfectly. The enemy team doesn’t notice and all your team work together and listen.
Her primary obviously does nothing outside of it’s 12m or so range (I forget it’s exact number). Starts of super weak and takes time to ramp up, time that if your not hitting a shield is eating up Ammo and limits how long you can use the ramped up dmg.
But lets say you enter combat fully charged last I remember her DPS was 180 but it might of been nerfed without me paying attention. Even without armor, healing or any kind of attempt to protect them self it would take 3.3333 seconds to kill a 600hp hero.
Most hero’s can destroy Sym’s 200 hp in 2 seconds or less. Even at her absolute best vs a 200hp hero it’s still over 1 second of accurate beam tracking. If you assume weapon accuracy is close to 50% as even the best OWL players barely push 60 on the likes of Zarya, so you can double those time to kill.
Simply put the only way Sym can kill people with her beam is if they ignore her and the huge flashing, loud beam attack or she gets some kind of super pocket by Mercy, zen, brig what ever.
As far as the right click Orb goes it’s 60 dmg for a direct hit and 30 or less for splash to a fairly small area. Once per second at best. That is roughly 4 seconds to kill a 200 hp hero, or 10 for a 600 hp hero. It is poke trash dmg at best especially with how slow they are.
Oh and her Ultimate is a wall… so she’s a mediocre dmg DPS with no damaging Ult to help her save the day in clutch situations.
she’s bad because of her beam length, if they made it 25m and around Soldiers damage, ability to critical hit she’d be amazing.
Her abilities are good and her ult is awesome.
More range might help a bit, though further away you go the harder it is to aim with a beam weapon and track a moving target. Especially as your beam effect likely blocks your view of what your hitting.
I don’t think those can happen without accordingly timed nerfs either, value increases heavily upon mechanical changes like tp having a faster deploy but anyway, excuse the so called bashing, not my intention to insult anyone, o did open up this discussion just saying that people can be good at sym, the whole hate thing spiralled and I just kept going
For me the only possible buff for sym would be a cd offset for her tp, meaning that you don’t destroy it immediately but you start a timer and your cd at the same time, the tp would start ticking letting your team know it’ll self-destruct in 3 second or whatever and that way you would have more uptime with it since the cd overlap would be 8 out whatever, just my two cents
You mean these two cents?
2 Likes
Yeah, i suggested that when they changed it to infinite but in all honesty it’s not really all that determinant for me, it is however the only possible change I see as feasible at this point
>how other shorter effective ranged heroes are balanced to have reasonably uptime opportunities to function: either balanced to have mobility + burst for their low sustain (flanker route) or have really high sustain for their sustain damage overcoming their low mobility weakness (tank-like route)
>how sym is being “balanced”: low effective range (yes that includes orbs, they’re that slow), low sustain, low mobility (because that’s what infinite tp did) and low burst (also because of infinite tp not being available much)
“sAMe sTaNDArds” /s
ok I’m going to stop there before I get a migraine. pros don’t tp bomb AT ALL, they legit just rely on team pocket w+m1 and team taxi tp all day, even if there’s well enough time to do so + another 10s for tp to come back they won’t do it because they’re too stubborn about the notion of “sym can only w+m1 for uptime”. they blatantly get hitscan players to flex on sym just because of that misguided notion because “all you need is tracking” and it hard shows esp when they’re behind on the sym strats.
turrets do not have massive range. if 10m is massive, then what’s sym’s 12m primary or moira’s 20m succ? sniper tier?
>super convenient
>super limited
… so which is it?
having a 12m primary that demands sustain that you don’t have on your own to use is not convenient at all.
having orbs that have a sniper level charge time/fire rate but with neither the consistency nor effective range due to how slow the projectile is, is not convenient at all.
having her engagement, disengagement AND burst-combo-enabling tool have a 2s delay AND to have a cd mechanic that guarantees you needing to wait out the entirety of its long cd rather than being able to have uptime as it ticks like various other heroes’ abilities, is not convenient at all.
having a source of damage destructible in 1 shot for most heroes and requires their targets to walk into their LoS within 10m is not convenient at all.
you want to know what’s convenient? rapid fire hitscans. where you click is where you damage. undodgable unlike projectiles and often have longer effective range because of that.
you want to know what’s convenient? instant mobility that various heroes have.
you want to know what’s convenient? having your cd on your core tool tick as you get value from them so the experienced down time is lower.
you want to know what’s convenient? actually having the sufficient tools to function.
3 Likes
There’s a lot of obvious fixes for Symmetra but we as a community can’t do anything. It’s up to Devs to take notice.
Changes that would help:
• 30mps Orbs
• 125 damage orbs
• Faster charging orbs
• reverting beam damage to 65/135/195
• increasing base and stage 2 damage to 90/135/180
• increasing beam length
• lowering ramp time between stages to a flat one second
• increasing Symmetra’s health to 125 white health/ 125 shield health
• improved shields passive where shields take 1 second out of combat to regen
• faster deploying TP
• Using TP grants Sym and Sym only temporary shields
• Passive: damaging shields grants Sym temporary shield health
• revert TP to its 3.0 original
• lower turret cooldown to 8 seconds
• QoL orientation choice for wall placement.
Any of these changes could help Symmetra in her current state.
Her damage is just flat out bad, especially on console where her turrets are even weaker than her PC version.
For perspective, in the practice range, it takes Soldier around 3 seconds to kill a Roadhog. As Symmetra, from level 1 it takes nearly 6, from level 3 it takes 5 and with level 3 and 3 turrets, it’s a fraction slower than Soldier (about 3.12 seconds ish).
And apart from her secondary fire, she’s got no up front damage, and no threatening damage at all. It’s why she had 195 back in the day - It made her a threat. If she was that high charge, you would need to be cautious of getting too close because she would melt you. Back then, all she would’ve needed was 50 extra health and she would’ve been okay. Not great, but okay.
But no we’re in a place where she has no threatening up front damage, very little mobility, is incredibly squishy, has a hitbox the size of Timbuktu, has an incredibly mediocre ult and a ridiculously short effective range. And unlike before, he weapon’s not exactly easy to use anymore; the width and length of the beam makes it difficult to aim and deal effective damage with, even in her effective range, especially as a lot of her dps competition has smaller hitboxes and is a lot faster than her. Or just our ranges her. Very few dps heroes need to even come close to Symmetra to deal with her.
And this is a problem. One that, unfortunately, can only really be fixed with yet another rework, imo. She needs to be sent home back to the support role, as it seems to be the only place where they can have her utility being as strong as it needs to be to compensate for her low range/once high impact damage. Add a small heal ability to her kit, and she’ll make a good sub out for a Zen. Cause let’s be real, who picks Zen for his healing? You pick him for his Discord, his damage, and his ult. He heals on the side. Make Symmetra function similar to this. Have her damage as it was before (30/60/120), give her ultimates back, give her Photon Barrier back to actively cover for allies mistakes, as a support would, and add another type of turret that heals instead of damaging, letting her have any number/combination of them out up to 6 max, keeping the addition that 3.0 brought to the table where turrets are now throwable, and use that as a baseline for further development.