People Play Symmetra Wrong

[AdmiralSmurf-11911]

There have been changes made to her kit that redesigned how people played her. At first she was all about spamming the laser at people. Then they gave her balls. Then they gave her fast balls. (I would love to see them give her curve balls also but thats another topic). Then they adjusted the damage ramp up of the laser beam. All this has lead to more people just spamming the balls and forgetting the laser and not getting the one-two punch in when they can get the kill

[Zephrin-11143]

@Yin-1797

If so many players are playing her “wrong” whose fault is it that they continue to do so? The players’? Or Blizzard’s?

both.

players being bad, blizz trashing the hero in balance (leading to people not wanting to play her —> people not wanting to learn her) and in giving useless changes (and some very detrimental too) that mislead people or encourage people to play poorly (e.g. infinite tp, 140 damage orb instead of projectile speed).

@Yin-1797

This is the same problem that comes up with how Tanking is supposed to be and how Support is supposed to be done.

There are many Supports who don’t think they should make every effort to heal their team

pretty sure the view you’re talking about isn’t “they should make every effort to heal” but rather “healing isn’t the only thing they’re supposed to do” and that’s more of a problem with how blizz setup the sources of sustain and how supports fit in that setup in which incentivizes both healbot support designs and healbot dominant gameplay.

but the fact is, a support, or any other role for that matter, if you want to maximise the value you provide, you take up all the best opportunities available to get high value. even if that means

• securing a kill as a support instead of healing
• flanking as sym to get a pick or claim new territory instead of waiting for the team to pocket your w+m1 all day
• going for the kill as a tank

etc.

and for sym, she has FAR more opportunities to use tp+orbs+turrets to flank for picks with tp+orb+melee burst combo, flank to claim new territory, tp to dynamically move her territory, etc. than team pocket w+m1.

and those opportunities are often more valuable than having structures in passive positions where they’re collecting towers of dust waiting for enemies to finally reach them and their los to start contributing as you as sym is spamming inconsistent orbs from afar outside their effective range throughout that long wait.

[Zephrin-11143]

@Carver-11965

@AdmiralSmurf-11911

Try it, get used to the combo, its truly a nice one two punch that she has. It barely gives people a chance to react due to the burst damage

Can someone put that gif of Jamison laughing from spiderman here for me?

- YouTube

[Yin-1797]

@Zephrin-11143

both.

Nope.

@Zephrin-11143

players being bad, blizz trashing the hero in balance

Nope.

@Zephrin-11143

and in giving useless changes (and some very detrimental too) that mislead people or encourage people to play poorly (e.g. infinite tp, 140 damage orb instead of projectile speed).

And no.

It’s not up to you to decide how a character should be designed. Any attempts to counter that argument is problematic because it ends up reeking as entitlement, and something that can be disregarded. So whatever thing YOU think is “bad” or “deterimental” is without merit. Blizzard designs the character and with specific intentions based on that kit. They’re not going to tell you how to play the game, but there certainly intent there.

You have no evidence that the hero was “trashed in balance”, and you don’t really have any evidence that Blizzard didn’t intend for Symmetra to be used more commonly. Whatever intentions Blizzard has designed for the hero is their intention, not yours, and you can’t claim ownership. You’re free to give to feedback and whether or not Blizzard listens to that feedback and incorporates in some way, is entirely up to them, not you. Arguing that “balance is trash” or “Blizzard doesn’t understand their own design” is worthless can easily be disregarded.

This isn’t to say that Blizzard is infallible. Rather, you need to understand what their design intentions were and where the intended shortcomings are and give feedback based on those intentions. It’s Blizzard’s game, and their intentions - whatever they may be - are what can be argued.

Saying that players are playing Symmetra wrong or Blizzard is designing the hero "wrong’ isn’t up for debate. It’s Blizzard’s character, kit, and design; the best you can do is give feedback on that. Arguing for radical changes or complaining about weaknesses doesn’t help you.

---

@Zephrin-11143

problem with how blizz setup the sources of sustain and how supports fit in that setup in which incentivizes both healbot support designs and healbot dominant gameplay.

It’s not a “problem” it’s how Blizzard designed their game. You state it as a flaw (even fundemental flaw) in the design of Overwatch, but it’s not so much of a problem, and more of a design intention. Whether they fix it or not is entirely up to them.

[Pikaras-2659]

So overwatch players dont k ow how to use her?

[Archspire-21242]

Your rank is plat and you are telling others they are playing her wrong? I peaked 4300 with her and she is an actual garbage. Unless you just trying to trigger sym mains with this topic then good job I guess?

[AdmiralSmurf-11911]

Yup. Your ranking is actually not indicative of a hero being good or bad. Also given that your profile is private I cant really lend any credibility to your claims of rank. So the actual playtime you have as symmetra is hidden. I have no way of verifying your conclusion as you locked it away. Once its available based on the information given we can determine if what you say comes from 20 min of comp playtime or just some trash talking for the luls.

In the end of the day the game is always evolving. And some people like you need to see her shine in pro matches to even believe it without ever being anything but a meta slave yourself

[Zephrin-11143]

@Yin-1797

You’re free to give to feedback and whether or not Blizzard listens to that feedback and incorporates in some way, is entirely up to them, not you. Arguing that “balance is trash” or “Blizzard doesn’t understand their own design” is worthless can easily be disregarded.

we’re talking about the same dev team that:

• somehow thought it was a reasonable expectation to have sym get in 10m of the enemy and live there for 4s (double <=2.0 charge time) to just charge up and then longer to actually utilise lvl 3 beam (yes this was how sym3.0 was released initially)
• somehow thought infinite tp would “make sym more flexible” despite MASSIVELY spiking up the down time of tp: her all-in-one engagement, disengagement and burst-combo-enabling tool i.e. her main tool to actively do anything meaningful as a dps
  • it doesn’t take a genius to know that changing a hero to have all of low effective range, low sustain, low mobility AND low burst is trashing the hero. it’s simply common sense
  • if they actually knew how to play sym, they wouldn’t have made this kit killing change
• somehow thought orbs should be buffed in damage rather than either fire rate or projectile speed
  • if they actually knew what they were doing and know what sym’s issues were, they would’ve done 1 of the latter rather than leaving orbs as inconsistent (i.e. not helping their issue) while also making it feel worse on the receiving end because it worsens the spam
• somehow thought that nerfing turrets and ult after the kit killing tp nerf and after compensating the primary bug fix in double shield meta, despite the fact that sym was already being replaced in the meta then and despite the fact that sym had been underpeforming for >1yr across various metas without the nerfs prior to double shield meta is balancing her “individual balance” (i.e. balance independent of the meta) right.

so either it’s blizz not understanding sym, or they biased against her. either way,

@Yin-1797

This isn’t to say that Blizzard is infallible. Rather, you need to understand what their design intentions were and where the intended shortcomings are and give feedback based on those intentions. It’s Blizzard’s game, and their intentions - whatever they may be - are what can be argued.

so let’s work through what they can possibly intend for sym:

this following point knocks out primary-centic (i.e. zarya-like) gameplay:

@Zephrin-11143

if she was meant to be beaming with primary for most of her gameplay, she’d be a tank because that’s how much sustain a hero needs to do that with a lower ranged, sustain damage weapon whilst having minimal mobility.

if they want sym to be really passive and static in only ever re-enforcing claimed area, waiting for team pockets all day for w+m1 to be able to actively contribute, then that’s inherently a bad design anyways in more ways than one:

• going out to create and/or grab opportunities for yourself is inherently always going to be more efficient and yield higher value than the above where you’re waiting for them to come to you and you have little control over that
• the whole game was initially really fast paced and is getting much faster with all the goats and shield killing patches to make tanks, and consequently teams, move around more
  • most game modes have moving objectives (heck even 2CP is 2 different points in serially i.e. you need to move) and we’re getting another game mode in OW2 with a moving objective
  • the point of the rework was to get sym to be more dynamic too rather than static

so that’s out. what’s left? oh right, what I was saying about being a dynamic flanking zoner.

@Yin-1797

and you don’t really have any evidence that Blizzard didn’t intend for Symmetra to be used more commonly.

see the receipts in the linked post quoting directly from the devs who also repeated in the reddit AMA:

Kinda sad that I may abandon symmetra

They’ve repeatedly said the opposite i.e. that they’ve moved into not having very niche heroes.

and to clear something up: no I’m not saying she’s fine. she’s absolutely terrible rn. but people tunnel vision team tps and primary both in gameplay and in her discussions about improving her yet completely neglect the parts of her kit that she uses most and has more opportunities to use over the majority of the match: orbs and individual tp uses.

[Carver-11965]

There was literally one clip from an actual game that I counted in that montage. Playing game modes that are not standard Overwatch isn’t a way I’d play a character to really estimate their power level, it’s unfair and has different advantages and disadvantages that are not present in a regular game. Being able to spend all your turrets on a single engagement vs. having to pace yourself because you need to maintain an area near your healers, that kind of thing.

Second, I’m not saying that her primary fire doesn’t do damage - I think it’s hilarious that you want us to be happy with her orbs and terrible laser pointer when, at best, you can use it to catch people out when they aren’t paying attention or you’re lucky and they’re prioritizing someone that they think is more important than you, thus giving you the opportunity to put a fully charged orb in them.

I think her orbs could be okay, if it weren’t for the fact that her primary fire is so terrible. I think she could be okay, if it weren’t for the fact that her reliable damage output wasn’t so stuck on her turrets. Symmetra is a If then = Yes / No character, and it’s really painful.

Do you have your turrets up? Do you have help from your team? Do you have your resources to spend, as in, your turrets/tp didn’t just get obliterated in some other engagement? Do you have time to charge up? Then you might be OK. But if one of those things isn’t happening, you’re probably going to have a bad time.

Unlike other characters who can just click and get value, it’s like trying to sell me something that’s half the value for the same cost. I’m sorry, I’m just not that stupid. No sale.

[Zephrin-11143]

@Carver-11965

There was literally one clip from an actual game that I counted in that montage. Playing game modes that are not standard Overwatch isn’t a way I’d play a character to really estimate their power level, it’s unfair and has different advantages and disadvantages that are not present in a regular game. Being able to spend all your turrets on a single engagement vs. having to pace yourself because you need to maintain an area near your healers, that kind of thing.
…
Unlike other characters who can just click and get value, it’s like trying to sell me something that’s half the value for the same cost. I’m sorry, I’m just not that stupid. No sale.

1. to clear something up: no I’m not saying she’s fine. she’s absolutely terrible rn. but people tunnel vision team tps and primary both in gameplay and in her discussions about improving her yet completely neglect the parts of her kit that she uses most and has more opportunities to use over the majority of the match: orbs and individual tp uses.

2. you definitely do need to pace your turrets in deathmatch esp if you’re trying and not meme camping in 1 spot all game.

3. they’re mostly regular deathmatch, so no alterations of anyone’s kits at play to discredit the fact that the maneuver works

4. if you want a game: this whole 1st team fight in regards to the gameplay style: https://youtu.be/liF_Lg_x-Xo?t=80 and then this defense for the tp-orb combos https://youtu.be/lrDlslvOyYo?t=141

[Ranulf-1999]

@Obsidian-21756

In term of maximum damage you should secondary on a far target but the second it gets into your range, primary fire is the best damaing ability.

Stop with the myth that orbs are a long or even mid range tool. They arent. They are only aimeable within 15m, and the rest are ineffectual healer ult charge.

Not only that but beam is hardly ever useful against anyone that isnt a fat tank.

@AdmiralSmurf-11911

I want to direct your attention to Hammond and Ashe. Both heros that were not widely used immediately as it took some skill and learning to use them effectively.

Hammond maybe, but all it took for Ashe to took off is that people noticed that her kit is actually freaking bonkers for a sniper. She dominates at all elvels, including bronze. Its not a matter of skill at all, she is simply a poorly designed, do-it-all hero.

[Yin-1797]

@Zephrin-11143

somehow thought it was a reasonable expectation to have sym get in 10m of the enemy and live there for 4s (double <=2.0 charge time) to just charge up and then longer to actually utilise lvl 3 beam (yes this was how sym3.0 was released initially)

No, they didn’t anything about this. There was no expectation stated by Blizzard; you, however, are making this expectation for yourself.

@Zephrin-11143

somehow thought infinite tp would “make sym more flexible” despite MASSIVELY spiking up the down time of tp: her all-in-one engagement, disengagement and burst-combo-enabling tool i.e. her main tool to actively do anything meaningful as a dps

No, they did not state this. They changed the teleporter to be able to have the option of controlled self-destruct, giving more control to Symmetra’s teleporter; this required a change to how the cooldown works.

@Zephrin-11143

• it doesn’t take a genius to know that changing a hero to have all of low effective range, low sustain, low mobility AND low burst is trashing the hero. it’s simply common sense
• if they actually knew how to play sym, they wouldn’t have made this kit killing change

More supposition and conjecture without factual evidence.

@Zephrin-11143

if they actually knew what they were doing and know what sym’s issues were,

Ditto here, too. You clearly make these stupid mistakes all the time indicating bias that you think you know better than what Blizzard, the game’s creators, do when it comes to their designs. You are acting entitled; and it is easy to dismiss this argument.

@Zephrin-11143

somehow thought that nerfing turrets and ult after the kit killing tp nerf and after compensating the primary bug fix in double shield meta, despite the fact that sym was already being replaced in the meta then and despite the fact that sym had been underpeforming for >1yr across various metas without the nerfs prior to double shield meta is balancing her “individual balance” (i.e. balance independent of the meta) right.

You don’t have one bit of evidence or data-gathering to indicate what Blizzard did was wrong. This still reeks of entitlement bias.

@Zephrin-11143

so either it’s blizz not understanding sym, or they biased against her. either way,

Supposition without a basis of fact.

@Zephrin-11143

if they want sym to be really passive and static in only ever re-enforcing claimed area, waiting for team pockets all day for w+m1 to be able to actively contribute

More supposition which concludes

@Zephrin-11143

then that’s inherently a bad design anyways in more ways than one:

false conjectures. Defense is a real element in the design of Overwatch. Keep targets out of your controlled space or objective is a benefit to you. If they can’t approach, that’s good for you. The more time spent fighting away from the objective, the less time they have to capture it.

Ignoring some of the obvious faults in map designs. Defense is oriented to stalling and delaying until the timer runs out. It’s a beneficial design element to wait it out or find ways of bring the enemy to you in the most dangerous ways possible for them. Offense has to take the risk, defense does not have to give chase or mobilize anything or anyone to hunt down enemy targets. At best, they can sit on the objective all game and stall until the enemy offense decides to move in. That’s beneficial to a number of defensive minded heroes, including Symmetra.

@Zephrin-11143

going out to create and/or grab opportunities for yourself is inherently always going to be more efficient and yield higher value than the above where you’re waiting for them to come to you and you have little control over that

Irrelevant in defense; which is Symmetra’s primary design role. See above.

@Zephrin-11143

most game modes have moving objectives (heck even 2CP is 2 different points in serially i.e. you need to move) and we’re getting another game mode in OW2 with a moving objective

Irrelevant. Stay focused on here. Complain about the shortcomings on OW2 when OW2 is here.

@Zephrin-11143

the point of the rework was to get sym to be more dynamic too rather than static

And it did it’s job, but that doesn’t change the fact that Symmetra is largely going to be focused on defense, area and spacial control.

@Zephrin-11143

see the receipts in the linked post quoting directly from the devs who also repeated in the reddit AMA:

@Jeff Kaplan

this type of question is very hard to answer because we all now have the benefit of hindsight.

sometimes i wish we had kept offense and defense heroes (rather than merging them into damage) and only allowing offense heroes to be played on attack and defense to be played on defense. i know that idea might sound crazy and stupid but i think it would have allowed us to more “all in” on some “niche” hero designs like Torb, Symmetra and Bastion. much of the issue we face with the hero balance on these heroes is our player expectations that these heroes should be fully viable on all situations, and that really wasn’t our intent or vision for the game. we believed that with hero swapping, people would be more willing to adapt to “solve the problem”. we’re fighting some amount of human psychology and game design, i know.

the sombra arg is another standout… lol

Emphasis mine.

@Zephrin-11143

so let’s work through what they can possibly intend for sym:

@Geoff Goodman

I touched on this in another answer earlier but the tldr of it is: We tried it once, and it didn’t work out very well. That said, the door isn’t fully closed on this yet, its possible we’ll re-try her as a Support (healer) in the future.

[Ranulf-1999]

@Yin-1797

No, they didn’t anything about this. There was no expectation stated by Blizzard; you, however, are making this expectation for yourself.

You are right, Blizz didnt have any expectation of Sym working as a dps hero at all because they didnt design 3.0 was one lmao

@Yin-1797

No, they did not state this. They changed the teleporter to be able to have the option of controlled self-destruct, giving more control to Symmetra’s teleporter; this required a change to how the cooldown works.

No, it required no such change.

It was a direct nerf to personal TP while keeping team TP intact for OWL memes. There were no benefits to Sym gameplay as a dps hero at all with ITP.

@Yin-1797

More supposition and conjecture without factual evidence.

The first one is true, the second one isnt.

Sym WAS trashed, but not because Blizz ‘‘doesnt know’’ how to Sym plays. She was trashed because they dont want Sym to be played as anything but as a taxibot, and they have nerfed everything but the ability to team TP your team into point. It wasnt out of ignorance, it was an intentional awful change to a hero that barely qualifies as a dps hero.

[Yin-1797]

@Ranulf-1999

No, it required no such change.

You don’t decide this.

@Ranulf-1999

Sym WAS trashed, but not because Blizz ‘‘doesnt know’’ how to Sym plays. She was trashed because they dont want Sym to be played as anything but as a taxibot, and they have nerfed everything but the ability to team TP your team into point. It wasnt out of ignorance, it was an intentional awful change to a hero that barely qualifies as a dps hero.

False conjecture with no evidence.

[Ranulf-1999]

@Yin-1797

You don’t decide this.

Yes, I do, because I actually have 400 hours in Sym. You make it sound like it could have been a giant buff when it was self destructing after a few seconds already.

@Yin-1797

False conjecture with no evidence.

False conjecture that she was trashed in aspects aside the one thing that OWL uses her for? When thats literally her patch notes? Being nerfed for still being worse that Genji when he was ‘‘trash tier’’?

[Samantha-12140]

How about you stop commenting on Sym threads. You’ve got that fake “I pretend I’m smart” manner of typing which is extremely grating and your points are consistently wrong and bad to boot.

Reflect.

[Brynhildr-21678]

By the time you charge that beam after hitting an orb you’ll end up in spawn so I guess you have to ?

[Zephrin-11143]

@Yin-1797

No, they didn’t anything about this. There was no expectation stated by Blizzard; you, however, are making this expectation for yourself.

here are the receipts:

@GeoffGoodman

The biggest change to Symmetra’s primary fire is that it no longer locks onto enemies. This change, in turn, allows the weapon to deal significantly more damage and have increased range. While Photon Projector’s damage ramps up more slowly than previously, it also ramps down more slowly which makes it easier to maintain for the duration of a big fight.

• No longer locks onto targets
• Range increased to 10 meters
• Damage ramping (both up and down) now takes 2 seconds per damage level instead of 1 second
• Damage ramp increased from 30/60/120 to 60/120/180

@GeoffGoodman

As for the removal of the lock-on, we tried to make it work but there was no way to realistically increase its damage potential while still allowing that kind of lock-on targeting. On the plus side, it takes longer to lose charge on the weapon now so you don’t have to be crazy accurate to build up charge. You just need to be able to stay alive long enough to build it, which has always been the real trick with her

the expectation for sym to be able to do that WAS THERE.

@Yin-1797

No, they did not state this. They changed the teleporter to be able to have the option of controlled self-destruct, giving more control to Symmetra’s teleporter; this required a change to how the cooldown works.

August 13 patch notes:

Symmetra>

Teleporter

• Now lasts an infinite duration until destroyed
• Players can destroy their Teleporter with the ability 2 input
• Cooldown now starts when Teleporter is destroyed
• Maximum range increased from 25 to 30 meters
• Teleporter is destroyed if the entrance is more than 40 meters from the exit

Developer Comment: Symmetra’s Teleporter is an interesting tool but often felt too restricting to use. Making the Teleporter last indefinitely opens up new opportunities for how Symmetra is used in various maps and group compositions.

they spiked up the down time without changing how it’s interacted with and called the blatant nerf as “less restricting” and “have more opportunities of use” when it has literally the same use cases but can’t be used as often since it’s much less available. it’d be like giving rein’s barrier a 12s cd that only starts on deactivation or destruction then saying “it’s less restrictive now and you can use it in more comps and have more opportunities to do so”.

@Yin-1797

More supposition and conjecture without factual evidence.

please explain how a hero low effective range, low sustain, low mobliity and very low access to burst (whether for heal or damage) wouldn’t be trash…

@Yin-1797

You clearly make these stupid mistakes all the time indicating bias that you think you know better than what Blizzard, the game’s creators, do when it comes to their designs

when they actually had something functional (sym3.0 before infinite tp) and then they neuter the core tool that made that functional (what infinite tp did) while also claiming the literal opposite of what such a nerf entails as the goal/purpose of the change, then either they don’t know their design well or they’re just biased against it.

@Yin-1797

You don’t have one bit of evidence or data-gathering to indicate what Blizzard did was wrong.

>turrets and wall pretty much untouched for like the ~2yrs across various meta shifts from sym3.0 release and sym was underperforming.
>1 particular meta shift props her up and suddenly they gotta nerf them despite how their unnerfed states not being an issue for all those other metas and despite how other heroes got powercrept further since then

that itself wouldn’t necessarily be an issue if the power was redistributed to say her weapon (e.g. orbs and individual use of tp) BUT IT WASN’T. it was a net nerf on a hero’s individual balance (i.e. balance independent of meta) who legit was shown empirically to underperform in their individual balance (by all those metas she was underperforming in prior).

@Yin-1797

@Zephrin-11143

so either it’s blizz not understanding sym, or they biased against her. either way,

Supposition without a basis of fact.
…
This still reeks of entitlement bias.

when such blatant detrimental changes are made, those are the logical conclusions. you dismissing my logical arguments is not entitlement from me.

@Yin-1797

Defense is a real element in the design of Overwatch. Keep targets out of your controlled space or objective is a benefit to you. If they can’t approach, that’s good for you. The more time spent fighting away from the objective, the less time they have to capture it.

which defense is better:

1. is completely static and has to wait for intruders to move into that static space before the defense can trigger to ward them off which inherently gives the intruders much free ground to have more options of attack from valuable positions? or
2. a dynamic defense that achieves the potency of option 1 and be more fluid in where it wards off (i.e. can prevent more valuable areas from being taken and earlier too) and can even be used offensively to claim new areas?

obvs option 2. esp when teams in ow move around A LOT.

not to mention framing it in terms of defense only isn’t even very valid because half the game is attack.

@Yin-1797

@Zephrin-11143

going out to create and/or grab opportunities for yourself is inherently always going to be more efficient and yield higher value than the above where you’re waiting for them to come to you and you have little control over that

Irrelevant in defense; which is Symmetra’s primary design role. See above.

when you play widow (remember she was a defense hero), or any hitscan actually, do you just stay in 1 spot waiting for the enemy to walk into your los and effective range? or do you, yourself actually wasd and use mobility abilities to get yourself into effective range of enemies and to get good angles past enemy cover for you to contribute kills (getting opportunities to contribute; hero uptime)?

OBVS the latter. why? because you get more opportunities to actively contribute rather than camping somewhere for long periods of time where you’re not adding value. i.e. you going out to get opportunities to contribute is more efficient design than being forced to be served up opportunities. esp in an environment where teammates are chosen via rng and players are rewarded individually.

this logic applies irrespective of whether you’re on offense or defense. it applies irrespective of role.

@Yin-1797

Irrelevant. Stay focused on here. Complain about the shortcomings on OW2 when OW2 is here.

>you: she’s supposed to be really static
>devs: here are all these game modes with non-static objectives
>devs: “so we’re going to nerf the hell out of static play by redistributing tank power from their shields to other parts of their kit to make them move around more” x2~3 to kill goats and double shield
>me: points out how devs doing that inherently makes purposely designing heroes to be that static not fit in the game (in the sense that it’ll be designing them to be bad) and goes against where the game’s heading which leaves those heroes behind
>you: “iReLevaNT”

@Yin-1797

@Zephrin-11143

the point of the rework was to get sym to be more dynamic too rather than static

And it did it’s job

until infinite tp.

@Yin-1797

but that doesn’t change the fact that Symmetra is largely going to be focused on defense, area and spacial control.

area and spacial control sure, but not to be statically anchored down.

@Yin-1797

Emphasis mine.

them talking about regrets does not mean that the 3.0 rework wasn’t meant to make her “used more commonly” because there wouldn’t be a rework in the first place if they didn’t.

and saying “it’s possible they can try reworking her as a support” is not the same as “she’s supposed to be a support”. no promises have been made. and heck, even if there was, it further adds to my point of they don’t know what they’re doing.

[kinks-21787]

She has multiple combos like tp + turret + orb + punch.
But some people simply whine until the hero gets reworked, and then they will whine again.

[SleepyB34r-1518]

If they want her in melee range most of the time, she needs some changes.

Maybe some dash move.

And get rid of TP, its a garbo cheese ability anyway. Give her another builder power.