People Play Symmetra Wrong

[Yin-1797]

@Zephrin-11143

here are the receipts:

@GeoffGoodman

The biggest change to Symmetra’s primary fire is that it no longer locks onto enemies. This change, in turn, allows the weapon to deal significantly more damage and have increased range. While Photon Projector’s damage ramps up more slowly than previously, it also ramps down more slowly which makes it easier to maintain for the duration of a big fight.

• No longer locks onto targets
• Range increased to 10 meters
• Damage ramping (both up and down) now takes 2 seconds per damage level instead of 1 second
• Damage ramp increased from 30/60/120 to 60/120/180

@GeoffGoodman

As for the removal of the lock-on, we tried to make it work but there was no way to realistically increase its damage potential while still allowing that kind of lock-on targeting. On the plus side, it takes longer to lose charge on the weapon now so you don’t have to be crazy accurate to build up charge. You just need to be able to stay alive long enough to build it, which has always been the real trick with her

the expectation for sym to be able to do that WAS THERE.

No expectations there. The discharge time was also increased to the point that you don’t sit nuking a single target for 4 seconds or more. So, again…

@Yin-1797

There was no expectation stated by Blizzard; you, however, are making this expectation for yourself.

@Zephrin-11143

they spiked up the down time without changing how it’s interacted with and called the blatant nerf as “less restricting” and “have more opportunities of use” when it has literally the same use cases but can’t be used as often since it’s much less available. it’d be like giving rein’s barrier a 12s cd that only starts on deactivation or destruction then saying “it’s less restrictive now and you can use it in more comps and have more opportunities to do so”.

That’s your opinion in conflict with theirs. You can disagree with them and that’s totally fine, however, that’s not reality.

@Zephrin-11143

please explain how a hero low effective range, low sustain, low mobliity and very low access to burst (whether for heal or damage) wouldn’t be trash…

Symmetra has neither; low effective range; low sustain, low mobility (although it is limited), and low access to burst. None of this is true.

@Zephrin-11143

when they actually had something functional (sym3.0 before infinite tp) and then they neuter the core tool that made that functional (what infinite tp did) while also claiming the literal opposite of what such a nerf entails as the goal/purpose of the change, then either they don’t know their design well or they’re just biased against it.

They know their design better than anyone else here, they have access to loads of informational data which no one has here. They are unlikely to be biased against anything, since they created the character and the kit in the first place. The is specious reasoning.

@Zephrin-11143

turrets and wall pretty much untouched for like the ~2yrs across various meta shifts from sym3.0 release and sym was underperforming.

Evidence to back this up?

@Zephrin-11143

1 particular meta shift props her up and suddenly they gotta nerf them despite how their unnerfed states not being an issue for all those other metas and despite how other heroes got powercrept further since then

They’ve been clear on this bug fix, noted that there was going to be a huge shift in damage, and made subsequent changes. Believe it or not, patches take weeks to prepare and test, they’re more aware of how the changes are going to effect the game better than anyone else (usually), and created subsequent patches in follow-up to inevitably tweak the results.

@Zephrin-11143

that itself wouldn’t necessarily be an issue if the power was redistributed to say her weapon (e.g. orbs and individual use of tp) BUT IT WASN’T. it was a net nerf on a hero’s individual balance (i.e. balance independent of meta) who legit was shown empirically to underperform in their individual balance (by all those metas she was underperforming in prior).

A 40% to 70% increase in damage output needed to be adjusted. If you cannot fathom basic understanding of game balance, I don’t know what to say, but you aren’t qualified to be making arguments to the contrary. Also, lacking evidence to indicate she was underperforming.

@Zephrin-11143

when such blatant detrimental changes are made, those are the logical conclusions. you dismissing my logical arguments is not entitlement from me.

They aren’t logical conclusions. Blizzard designed the game, the character. the kit, hired the voice actor to perform the role. Re-tooled the kit, and continues to pour development resources and time and energy into the design. Logically, that does not indicate a bias against Symmetra. The fact that they’ve continually change, and re-tool Symmetra also indicates that they have a very strong understanding how Symmetra is supposed to work.

@Zephrin-11143

which defense is better:

1. is completely static and has to wait for intruders to move into that static space before the defense can trigger to ward them off which inherently gives the intruders much free ground to have more options of attack from valuable positions? or
2. a dynamic defense that achieves the potency of option 1 and be more fluid in where it wards off (i.e. can prevent more valuable areas from being taken and earlier too) and can even be used offensively to claim new areas?

obvs option 2. esp when teams in ow move around A LOT.

not to mention framing it in terms of defense only isn’t even very valid because half the game is attack.

You’re making assumptions here about static and dynamic defenses which I never stated, nor implied. An active, aggressive defense is generally welcomed in Overwatch. Think of it like North American Football.

@Zephrin-11143

this logic applies irrespective of whether you’re on offense or defense. it applies irrespective of role.

Except in the case of Widowmaker vs. Symmetra. The two don’t play in anyway similar. You need to compare Symmetra to Torbjorn, builder to builder.

@Zephrin-11143

you: she’s supposed to be really static

devs: here are all these game modes with non-static objectives
devs: “so we’re going to nerf the hell out of static play by redistributing tank power from their shields to other parts of their kit to make them move around more” x2~3 to kill goats and double shield
me: points out how devs doing that inherently makes purposely designing heroes to be that static not fit in the game (in the sense that it’ll be designing them to be bad) and goes against where the game’s heading which leaves those heroes behind
you: “iReLevaNT”

Childishly irrelevant.

@Zephrin-11143

area and spacial control sure, but not to be statically anchored down.

No, however, Sentries are a limiting factor to how much Symmetra can actively go after targets. Teleporter also limits how much space you can control and deny; similar limits are placed on Torbjorn.

@Zephrin-11143

them talking about regrets does not mean that the 3.0 rework wasn’t meant to make her “used more commonly” because there wouldn’t be a rework in the first place if they didn’t.

No, that makes no logical sense.

If a character isn’t performing to their vision, they are free to change it so that it more closely matches it, and then fine-tuning it so that it performs well. This has nothing to do with whether or not the character’s usage or popularity is high or low. There are cases where a character can be reworked to be made more popular, sure, but that’s not a contributing reason for a specific re-tooling or re-work.

@Zephrin-11143

and saying “it’s possible they can try reworking her as a support” is not the same as “she’s supposed to be a support”. no promises have been made. and heck, even if there was, it further adds to my point of they don’t know what they’re doing.

Never mentioned or implied. It was something they thought they could try internally again. They had tried it before and it didn’t pan out very well, and it sounds like something to try again, but in a more controlled and off-the-wall experiment. Nothing to be guaranteed, but just for discovery and as a small project with little consequence… for not at least.

It has nothing to do with whether they know their character or not.

@TommySalami-11559

No way in hell

Her combat changed dramatically from 2.0 to 3.0. Her effective range was greatly increased yet all of the old utility of her gun was removed. So she can no longer pierce lock on and such.

Alongside her major gun changes her instant access combat ability was removed. Removing photon barrier changed almost every one of her matchups in this game.

Her combat has been greatly altered with every rework she received. If you think her combat didn’t change I don’t believe that you really learned the other versions of sym.

She still sets up sentries to guard space, she still pokes, threatens and suppresses with Orbs. She still nukes faces with the combined power of sentries and her primary when close enough.

The biggest changes come with her utility, and it has always been her utility that’s seen the more radical changes.

@Samantha-12140

How about you stop commenting on Sym threads. You’ve got that fake “I pretend I’m smart” manner of typing which is extremely grating and your points are consistently wrong and bad to boot.

Reflect.

When you have no argument worth to argue, insult the person, and belittle them; because that will show them that you have no merit worth considering to the point that only insults are your only retort.

Flagged and reported.

@Ranulf-1999

Yes, I do, because I actually have 400 hours in Sym. You make it sound like it could have been a giant buff when it was self destructing after a few seconds already.

Then change it right now. Do it. Show me that you have the decision-making power at Blizzard and change it right now.

@Ranulf-1999

False conjecture that she was trashed in aspects aside the one thing that OWL uses her for? When thats literally her patch notes? Being nerfed for still being worse that Genji when he was ‘‘trash tier’’?

Hyperbole with no basis in fact.