But that change to blue beam fundamentally changes mercy gameplay flow… And in which situations you can pick her… She will work with handfull or champions that does benefit from RoF increase, while if you don’t have those on your team you are stuck with nothing to do when your team is full HP… Now it is fluid and you can make argument that it works with every hero in the game… Why we want to take that away…
Keep the boost as is and up the healing if you want. There’s 0 need to nerf boost in ANY capacity as things are currently.
Fixed it for ya.
id like to keep damage boosts in basekits at 25% like discord is rn
So lets say we take Sojourn, Hanzo, Roadhog, and Widow out of the list of characters you’re concerned about.
What character interactions with Mercy are you most concerned with?
Hah, good one…
And yeah, role based healing sounds dope but that would need an ultcharge gain adjustments I feel…
Have you seen Zen under the influence of the fox? Just because another skill doesn’t stack with Kiriko’s ult doesn’t mean it isn’t insane. He does stuff he should never be doing even with just her ult, but because it’s temporary, and staggerred by an ult timer, it is tolerable.
That change is massively OP on any character…Rein swinging 30% faster, Rockem Sockem Rammatra, Hanzo with superspeed…the only reason it works with Kiriko’s ult is because it is such a short duration and long refresh.
The entire concept is short sighted and would cause breaks so massive that it would dwarf Moth meta.
If I were to graph out the damage over time on each hero, it really wouldn’t be that much different for the vast majority of heroes.
Well if they were so massive, you’d think you could say what they are.
Not just “vaguely bad things would happen”.
You CANNOT…ever make decisions based on damage over time against a solitary target in a game as bursty and mobile as OW2. The metric is utterly useless.
So… if you’re concerned about burst, and this change lowers burst potential… 
Actual changes Mercy needs right now are almost entirely QoL stuff.
Make beam not break while popping Valkyrie.
Make Valkyrie movement not worse than GA movement. (Valk is so slow and clunky right now its not even funny.)
Give us back the ability to stop upwards momentum during superjump because honestly sometimes you jump WAY too high.
Shift Ult gain during boost TO MERCY and off of boosted target to better manage ult economy for those high high impact ults.
Some adjustment to close range GA. It feels incredibly clunky at times.
The one buff I’d like to see on Mercys valk would just be to have both beams active at the same time. This would be with current live numbers and that’d be it. Would make GA feel like it does more work.
Well yeah lol. But that’s a somewhat easily tweaked number.
Would just feel so much better to heal if you have like a D.va on the team lol.
Heh, imagine if Valk could GA to any surface she can point her crosshair at.
DF, BALL, Sig to extent, Ashe, McRightclick, Echo to an extent (since a lot of her power is stickies and beam), Oh and Rein, since a lot of his ult charge comes from fire strike…
I cannot count how many times i asked for this already… But since Valk not breaking beam is asked for few years now, i doubt we will ever get it…
Yeah, I find myself a lot not using crouch to SJ, but just looking up and slingshoting myself in to the air so I won’t jump as high…
I don’t like that… It makes me feel powerfull when I boost a target so they can use a big ult faster…
And what do you mean shift? RN both parties gain ultcharge…
I would like that as an OPTION… Like i CAN have both active but i CAN choose to turn off yellow beam…
Yeah sure, just making sure that we are on the same page here… I don’t want a salty dps main calling us ‘entitled’ because we didn’t point out smth that should be obvious (-;
The reason she has her mobility is because she’s a pacifist, priority target. As mercy I need to give the enemy a reason to kill me and then make it as hard as possible. Otherwise I’m an incredibly passive and boring character.
If I’m not making your life hard with really good utility (mass rez, damage/attack speed boost, extremely high healing) why would you shoot me? Mass rez creates stalemates and hide-and-seek gameplay, which is less fun. Super high healing is generally not fun because it takes away your choice in counter play; right now you can still kill a mercy pocket if you out-play them and burst them down, or you can focus their mercy. If she just guarantees they won’t die to anything but a one shot then you have to focus the mercy.
You are misinterpreting my points or putting words in my mouth. Changing how a certain hero interacts with a newly reworked ability is not a major adjustment to that hero, come on. More work than not making the change in the first place, sure, but it’s not a valid point for not making the change. You need to establish that the change is “objectively bad” in some way other than trivial edge cases.
I did not at all say that these heroes would have to change how they play. They could benefit from faster fire rate whether they’re going for body shots or head shots. If you really mean to imply that these characters should never go for body shots then I have no words. That doesn’t even counter my point, since again every single one of them would get to click heads more with faster attack speed.
The fact that you’re bringing Mercy’s recent buff into this isn’t doing you any favors. Improving her pistol effectiveness does not reinforce bad play. That is such a black-and-white, blind way of seeing a character’s kit. It improves the options she has available to her. Check my post history if you want to see some conversation on why it was a good buff.
So you’re ignoring the core premise of this entire discussion. Please, go read the reddit thread. The whole point is that we could have burst damage characters with abilities that do damage in the range of ashe and sojourn if damage boost wasn’t a thing. They aren’t inherently broken on their own, their synergy with Mercy is. Why would they nerf Ashe instead of Mercy? Let’s once again use a concept that has already been established in this discussion: power budget. A significant nerf to Mercy’s core ability would have to be made up in the rest of her kit somehow. Unfortunately, the rest of her kit is tricky to get right. We’ve already had Mercy metas where her rez or healing were insane, and they weren’t fun. If instead we nerf Ashe, her kit is fairly easy to tune to accomadate. She has a lot of damage available from other sources. Kind of a no-brainer really.
The thing is, now it’s happened again. Blizz could once again nerf Sojourn to no longer have a high-burst-damage ability, but why when there’s an alternative? Besides the obvious: Sojourn is busted with or without Mercy lol. I personally think they should make railgun unable to crit so that she’s not just a better Soldier. But I also think they should change Mercy boost too. At this point we understand that damage breakpoints are definitely something we need to avoid, and replacing damage boost with attack speed boost would prevent it from being something we ever need to consider again in the future. There’s also a few other niche breakpoints that would conveniently go away such as Widow being able to bodyshot Tracer.
My dude, I was literally being nice. You talked about how you don’t have to play Mercy/Cassidy or any other pairings, ignoring that Mercy/Sojourn (and previously Mercy/Ashe) is that exact kind of basically-required meta. I said, okay, you’re ignoring the issue as if though it isn’t a concern, that’s alright because it probably doesn’t affect you. I gave you an out. I did not talk down to you, I didn’t imply I was better than you. I’m definitely not top 1% either. I think it’s a fairly safe assumption that you’re not a top player, and that’s not a bad thing. Jesus, lighten up. No one is trying to personally attack you.
You raise a pretty good point, but you’re missing out on a few aspects of the bigger picture.
First off and most easiest, damage boost gives double ult charge: once to Mercy, and once to the boosted hero. As Mercy, I’m focusing on utility, not damage, and that includes improving our ult economy. You could argue that 30% faster ults on top of 30% damage boost still isn’t as much overall damage as if Mercy was pumping out 5-10k damage on her own. And to that I say: wow that’s boring. Why have another character doing the same exact thing when you could have a character doing something completely unique instead? If I can ensure we have an ult for every fight, that could be less over all damage but a lot more consistent kills and team fights won.
Besides that, I just talked about how Mercy forces the enemy to play her game by making herself a priority target. You’re not going to see the value that provides in simple damage numbers. The synergy is there. I can use my teammates to terrorize the enemy and make them hate me. I can tear apart their morale and uplift my team.
And that right there is the issue. You’re thinking about Mercy all wrong. Open your mind! Do you really look down on me, imagining yourself powerful? You do not know true power. I am using you, and you are none the wiser. Lol, for real though, get a clue.
Again, the counterplay is still killing Mercy. You need LoS? Establish map control. Play the game. There is no situation where Mercy lacks counterplay. You just need to open your mind to it being something besides simple abilities. Overwatch is a game about team work and map awareness.
So let’s combine a couple of the concepts we’ve discussed. You’ve got all the pieces, but you’re not putting them together. You say Mercy boost doesn’t provide as much value as Battle Mercy. You say Mercy boost requires significant skill and coordination to counter, giving my team an advantage. Do you see where the value comes from? I can make the enemy play my game, while meanwhile I am focused on more tactical things, like keeping track of everybody’s location and ultimate charge. I make callouts, proactively defend against flanks, and keep everybody motivated. Oh, and not dying, I’m focused on not dying while the entire enemy team wants me dead.
Again, you don’t get Mercy. She’s meant to be pacifist, she’s meant to play differently than any other hero. A lot of what you’re saying about Mercy playstyle is only true of very bad Mercy’s.
I get what you’re saying about it encouraging a bad playstyle. We all know about the players who don’t know how to play games and just beam their friends. Guess what? I started there. I didn’t play shooters before OW. On launch in 2016 I couldn’t aim at all, I had no idea how to play a PvP game. I played Mercy and pocketed my Widow main friend. I improved, pushed myself to experiment with what I could get away with, how I could save teammates and catch out enemies unawares. I worked on my aim. Within a few months I was having the time of my life playing Mercy in diamond and experimenting with Pharah and Reinhardt. Players told me for ages, “You’re amazing, I didn’t know Mercy could even be played like that.” It wasn’t just me, a lot of Mercy mains were inventing a playstyle for this character.
Everyone has to start somewhere. Mercy is one of the coolest things about OW, a hero that complete beginners can feel comfortable playing. That’s not something to resent. It’s a point of pride.
You probably don’t want to hear it, but I’m pretty sure they intend “dive” to be the new norm. It’s fun and appealing to more people. It’s fast-paced and exciting. Most of all, it challenges players. Double shield required high dps to burn through and counter. Dive doesn’t require hard CC, it just helps. Dive can be outplayed through map awareness, proactive play, and good aim. As the game gets older, why not ask more of players? We need to stay challenged.
Well for DF and Ball, it would be easier to get them to an ideal balance state. i.e. Probably more damage on their bullets. Since they keep alternating between “Too Strong” and “Too Weak”
Ashe/Cass would probably be a mix of downsides and benefits. Worse for headshots, better for bodyshots.
Echo is kinda similar to Pharah concerns, but I could see them buffing her if she’s too weak.
If anything, the other thing “gatekeeping” Mercy buffs, besides ranged sharpshooters.
Is concerns about making PharMercy and EchoMercy too strong.
Maybe, does not change the fact that takes away FUN from a character in a role that already is not allowed much fun… And this is so more people would want to pick her…
But no one just holds M1 on them… People click individually each shot, so they get in to a groove of clicking in certain rythm, like a metronome. Fact that they CAN shoot faster wont MAKE them shoot faster…
Not true… Pharah has only rockets, while a lot of power in Echo is in her stickies and beam…
But that is it… Echo is not to weak without Mercy… But Mercy wouldn’t be incentivize to blue beam her half the time, since she does not get anything from it and provide zero value to the team…
But they are not? Maybe Pharmacy in lower ranks, but once hitscan becomes somewhat competent pharmacy is not runing rampant anymore…
My concerns, that i brought up, are not about 'those heroes will be too weak without dmg boost. It is literally ‘I blue beam (with yours new proposed blue beam) them and I get ZERO value out of that’.
Keep in mind Diamond and above is probably about 7% of the playerbase, or less than that.
And the devs are looking to get their profits off of ladder players, not OWL, going forward.
I LOVE how you took that out of context just to dismiss everything (-;
Mostly because “Well it’s only a problem for 93% to 97% of the playerbase, no big deal”.
Seems a bit off.
[quote=“GreyFalcon-11737, post:278, topic:762139, full:true”]
I am low gold player ATM… And on that ELO pharmacy is not runing rampant… So nice assumption that everyone that is not diax+ is incompetent of shooting up…
So what happens to PharMercy and EchoMercy if Mercy gets 65hps?