I don’t take kindly to people dismissing a valid argument by calling it a strawman argument. It’s usually the type of people who only want to discuss things that supports their agenda while pretending to want an open discussion.
It’s important for people to realize that this opinion is just that, an opinion which is fine to have. But insuating that it’s somehow fact or the opinion of the majority without providing any proof of it is silly.
I’m currently running a strawpoll which I posted in a lot of different places and currently only 17.44% are in favor of OQ. I’m aware of the flaws that kind of data has however if anyone wants to flat out dismiss it, the burden of proof switches to them.
People just say “go play open queue” the problem is that the game is BALANCED around role queue. Role Queue has messed up both the tank and support roster and people just want to plainly deny that. Certain tanks, dps, and supports work EXTREMELY well in 2-2-2 comps, as such it makes them “op” and quick to be nerfed.
Role Queue has also killed any chance for heroes like Bastion to get any meaningful changes. With Bastion, you can no longer just ran triple/quad tank and roll over him with ease. Now that you have to think (which people don’t like doing) it forces bastion to remain niche because people don’t like to think about how to counter him.
People forget the meta was shifting away from GOATs into a meta that actually supported triple dps comps, at least before Sigma.
Also the whole “5 dps every game!!!” is worst confirmation bias than bronze players claiming Bastion is in every one of their games. It’s a myth that people have echo chambered in this forum so hard that people just accept it as fact.
You presented your opinions on it, it doesn’t make it any less of a valid argument. No Limits is the actual classic mode, the likely difference is that the people who liked it with time probably just moved on due to time.
There is no problem with no limits because the game is no longer balanced towards it just as the game isn’t balanced towards OQ. That’s just something that people who choose to play it have to deal with.
The subject at hand is trying to make something to give something that is a personal preference more importance, hence why they want it on the main game card in the hopes that it’s somehow going to change something. If we are putting past iterations of the game format on the main cards, why not all? Like I said, there’s no problem with putting it there other than making the main cards more crowded.
A lot of the same arguments used to put OQ there can be used on No limits as well.
Dodo basically did in the another thread by keep using “many” to support that there is enough interest in OQ to make RQ obsolete.
This is the poll
h ttps://strawpoll.com/6ux1r4uwu/r
Places I posted
r/overwatch
r/competitive overwatch
My twitter with #Overwatch
Here on the forums
My own personal discord server
Sideshow’s Discord
Bren’s Discord
Smex’s Discord
YOW’s Discord
SVB’s Discord
Samito’s Discord
Timthetatman’s Discord (though that channel is very innactive)
Flaws:
It’s a strawpoll (people could be voting multipile times)
It’s only posted in places which is likely visited by English speakers
Time of day can be a factor
I’m not a big name so I don’t have a big network to get more data from.
Another problem is that it Further divides the player base potentially increasing the queue times in open queue
I wouldn’t see “cluttering” of the menu to be too big of an issue and certainly not the only issue
If cluttering is really so big of a deal then we should go back to having open queue only Because rq is more cluttered with the three separate roles and flex Q
You said a lot of the arguments are the same, can you tell me which ones? Because as I’ve said before people want different modes for different reasons. You’ve also said something like this before that there is a fine line in an individual’s preference of what constitutes too much freedom or too much restrictions.
One can absolutely prefer open Q or no limits for different reasons. Eg:
Single hero limit increases hero variety – Although it does decrease compositional variety
Single hero limit potentially increases the skill needed. if your hero is taken by someone else it requires you to know how to play another hero
With all that said, I personally would be totally down for competitive no limits being featured on the main game screen despite the potential drawbacks. At the very least I wouldn’t mind if the developers gave it a trial period to see how it goes. Although they sort of gave it a trial with the competitive no limits in the arcade. Maybe it was simply not popular enough to warrant a place on the main screen
I’d like to see the actual quotation and the context for myself
That is what I’m getting at as well as the part of the problem. Some want it to be more visible because apparently it being in Arcade makes a big difference when it comes to being aware that it exists. But having more options divides the playerbase further.
OQ comp existing and even being on the main card is a luxury for those who like it, because based on the data I have it’s not a lot of people who has it as their prefered option. As of this post, it’s sitting at 17%
More creativity
Not restrictive
You can pick whatever you want if you think it’s going to make a difference (and you don’t even need another person to swap off)
Higher possibility of each game being different with more options.
With a 17% backing for OQ, I don’t even think that’s enough interest to warrant a spot on the main card, but I’m not going to advocate for it to be removed because I think it’s important that people who enjoy it get to play that way.
If memory serves right, you were arguing for the use of “many” being valid as well but I might be wrong.
Based on the little data we got from the DEVs we already know that it’s popular in KR server (can’t remember if it’s Asia as a whole or just KR) but even that can have been subject to change and we could see RQ being more popular now. For Koreans being good at a game gives status and I doubt a lot of OQ players would be pushing seriously towards becoming top players because if they actually got good, they wouldn’t be playing OQ in semi pro and pro games.
But open Q divides the playerbase in a positive way
By Soaking up damage players It reduces Q times in both modes
The developers also confirmed this
Having open queue for the quick play menu makes sense for the above reason as well as for UI consistency Between the quick play and competitive cards
It also frees up a slot in the arcade and makes the arcade menu less cluttered
It could be argued though that people will miss out on loot boxes So that is something to consider
Overall I think it makes sense to have it in the main screen
Not really? The developers themselves said they were surprised at the success of the open queue
Evidently there is enough interest to warrant it having a place on the main screen
You left out a big, possibly the single biggest reason to want to open Q Which is reduced Q times. Single hero limit does not add any queue time
However I will agree that there are some good arguments there in favour of having no limits although they are quite different to the reasons for open Q. It’s not just less restrictive , it’s less restrictive with Zero meaningful benefit to queue times. In fact, as covered already it could potentially increase Q times
I followed that thread closely and I would say that you are misrepresenting what was said .
But then wouldn’t that be representative of usage and not preference?
Is this still the case though? WIth priority passes, having more DPS in RQ in the flex queue for passes would make the overall queue times better I’d assume.
We don’t know what their expectations were, I also don’t know if the context applies to overall interest in it or the difference between the regions.
I think it makes sense to have competitive OQ simply because it’s the competitive card but I wouldn’t expect to see competitive CTF, Deathmatch and all that other stuff in there.
Not necessarily, if they are motivated to be good they’d want to be good in the thing that matters. I don’t think there’s much clout in being top 500 in CTF or something like that.
Eitherway, I think my poll shows preference but yeah, I don’t speak those other languages or know what platforms they use to discuss so I’m not going to venture into that.
I disagree with that. They couldn’t provide anything else to back up the argument and insisted on an unspecified amount of people conveyed though the word “many” was sufficient for the discussion about a rather impactful subject.
Sure, but depends on the mods.
In QP it can have a big impact but in Comp? I doubt DPS players are going to “suffer” to get Passes in order to save 2-3 mins per queues. Really doubt it.
Same was done with RQ with absolutely zero official info, just random claims of RQ being chosen and the preferred method of playing “by the vast majority of players”, but then again bias exists.
One of the biggest problems this game has is player education and it has spread so much that even Developers were surprised to see that the actual True Flex players were the minority and most of the players are either onetricks or Main X role.
If you ask them then whats better, RQ will win (not by much really, all non official polls are skewed) but in reality, in a game like OW, the mode that severs choice and encourages lack of versatility is the worse.
Yeah, but the thing in my opinion is that it’s the minority of flex players that actually hard carried OQ pre RQ. The whole system relied on either people who enjoyed flexing or felt like they had to flex for a realistic chance at winning. I was the latter, I’d queue games hoping to play a role or hero I wanted but often after looking at all the instalocks had to flex whatever was needed and often times my hero pool was expanded through having to play the meta tank or support, Learning how to play them in comp to the point where I became good enough to play them at my ELO and sometimes climbing as well. So even though theoretically it was more open, I was mostly stuck flexing the same heroes for a season/patch.
Main problem is that the “minority” was probably not like a 4%, but close to a 20% and RQ killed the game for those. There has been a massive exodus of True Flex players early 2019 (we saw the queue times increase on stupid levels) and multiple threads of people here.
Now the vast majority of those players are out, OW is definitely worse because the lack of versatility has won so yeah, the title is true. This has been said multiple times: RQ fixed some things and brought more problems than it solved.
PS: And yes, many of those problems could be solved with LFG, but due to player behaviour (people are lazy and want it all in 1 button), working on that solution/tool was not worth it.
When I say Flex I don’t mean people who flex to different roles throughout the game, I mean the ones who had to play tank or support, sometimes solo, because no one else are going to do it. Those players are still here and probably enjoy RQ a lot.
Open Q really was good for Quickplay. But not as much as competitive. in SOME aspects.
I THINK the healthiest approach to this SHOULD have been this design for Competitive:
Slot 1 : Tank role.
Slot 2: Healer role.
Slots 3-6 : OPEN Q.
Truth: Im not picking healer because I care about ANYONE on the team. I am a DPS player picking the healer role because I’d rather be DPS’ing… BUT the line is TOO LONG.
I think the same can be said about quite a few other people here. That they are not picking tank or healing roles because they want to. But because they want LOW Q times. Which creates this gap in the game called PLAYER FRUSTRATION. People complain about the Quality of healers and tanks being “awful”. But have to realize that we aren’t picking those roles because we truly care about the mission.
And yet you still talk to them - Seriously we had polls across different forums, Blizzards data, queue times in smaller regions, and top500 and they all agree.
There has been NO evidence against - not one. All of the reasonable people have already worked it out.
For the few who just want to block their ears constantly and ignore the massive amount of data, then there isn’t much you can do with them.
Some people will believe the world is flat, some people believe the moon landings were fake.
Yeah, this is basically my last attempt with the poll. People are going to dismiss it for various reasons but I’ll just drop the link to it in any new thread on the topic and leave it at that.
- Seriously we had polls across different forums, Blizzards data, queue times in smaller regions, and top500 and they all agree.