Overwatch 5v5 might be the nail in the coffin

TLDR down below

Overwatch 1 designs after Overwatch 2 vision is released

  • Will this community migrate when the changes happens? OW1 is slated to also adopt the 5v5 change.

Fundamentally the game won’t have changed toooo much but much of the playstyle for tanks will. If its not how people enjoyed playing Hog, Zayra, D.Va, Hammond, etc. will these players still want to play those heroes? They’ve adjust the newer map designs to compensate for the change to 5v5 but what about the original maps? The devs already mentioned they were debating if they were going to to have to steer the players into a different playstyle for the heroes but what happens when your D.Va is diving into their team and you’re on Temple of Anubis? She’s not like Winston with a bubble that others can all benefit from. Should the D.Va player change their strategy, swap to a different tank (lawl yeah right), or will the devs have to update all the original maps to add additional cover like they’ve designed into their new maps?

Queue Times

  • 5v5 isn’t going to fix queue times. There’s this phenomenon know as generated demand aka latent demand.

On the surface it makes sense to believed that if you increase the supply of something, you should meet the demand but with this phenomenon as we increase the supply the demand grows. In real life example of this is when they increase width of roadways to reduce traffic congestion they were surprised to find out this didn’t fix congestion it actually made it worse.

"The concept is called induced demand, which is economist-speak for when increasing the supply of something (like roads) makes people want that thing even more.*"

"it is only in recent years that social scientists have collected enough data to show how this happens pretty much every time we build new roads."

How this applies to Overwatch:
Eliminating 1 tank per team doubles the amount of available tanks ready for queue which is a plus thus a shorter queue time. Eventually more tank players and supporter players will go “Oh cool I can’t finally play dps again and not wait forever.” Considering DPS is the MOST popular role in the game as well as the most relatable role for veteran FPS players, people returning or joining the community will most likely be dps players. Soo we’ll be back where we started, complaining about queue times because the more room there is for people to queue for dps the more people that will queue for dps.

Afterthoughts:
If this doesn’t pan out the way they intended, there’s a low probability of this being reverted back to 6v6 and we’ll have to complain about it forever like mercy mains lol.

The Inevitable Power Creep:

Overwatch 2 is going to be more skill based than Overwatch 1. The writing is on the wall. The smaller teams hold you more accountable for your actions. The 1 tank creates more room for mid/long range heroes to be great when there’s less likely chase that the tank’s going to dive them. They wouldn’t dare nerf Widowmaker & Hanzo to no longer get 1 shot headshots. So where does that leave the closer range or dive characters like Symmetra, Reaper, Tracer, Genji, Sombra etc? Are the dev’s going to make them more impactful to match the presence of the mid/long range meta that’s coming? I imagine that’s part of the reason they mentioned moving Symmetra back into the support role. She’s more usefully as a support in a 5v5 comp than as a dps. Honestly I feel like the 5v5 changes alleviates a some issues while presenting a lot of other unforeseen issues that the dev team just can’t predict.
Remember the changes the game’s gone through that seemed the most predictable:

  1. Duplicate picks in competitive (2 Reinhardts)
  2. Mercy being able to resurrect her team after the other team exhausted their c/d.
  3. Attempting to balance with zero restrictions to team comp. (3 Supports & 3 Tanks is unbeatable)
  4. Releasing a hero to counter a broken meta in the game rather than balancing. (Baptiste)
  5. New release hero breaking the game and creating new issues. (Doomfist, Baptiste, Brigitte)

With a track record like above, why should we have faith that this 5v5 change is going to roll out smooth?

TLDR;

  • 5v5 isn’t going to fix queue times because more dps player will show up once the queue time’s down, which will increase the queue times again.
  • 5v5 is going to alienate some players who liked old Hog, D.Va, etc. and OW1 isn’t going to be a safe retreat because it will also implement 5v5.
  • 5v5 is going to over-tune the heroes and power creep will happen. (1 less tank -> More freedom for long/mid range heroes -> Close range champions needing a buff to stay relevant)
  • The Dev’s have failed numerous times, I have no faith they won’t do the same with 5v5 and I’m not sure we should have faith they won’t based on their track record.
50 Likes

I see something else that the queues get worse. If Blizzard doesn’t manage to balance the tanks properly and make them more fun, I see a great danger that many tanks will leave quickly. In addition, there is significantly more pressure on one tank and the team can become toxic very quickly if the tank does not play a meta tank. If that isn’t fixed or cushioned, I’ll honestly see black for Overwatch. From what I’ve seen so far, I don’t feel like playing tank. Even if not completely balanced, the tanks were melted faster than in the live game. When the tank is dead, the other team usually wins automatically. Only the future has an answer, but if these problems cannot be dealt with or are fixed too late, 5v5 was the stupidest balance decision ever.

10 Likes

They’ve already address this. The tanks are strong & beefer plus with only one tank to heal instead of two the healers are able to keep them up much easier. I’d be more worried about the tank players having fun while tanking. Meta could dictate if they’re having fun but having more pressure on them also is addressed above. This will hold everyone more accountable.

2 Likes

Ignoring that point 3 of your TLDR is based on an assumption that lacks practical evidence (and in fact there is evidence that they are going the other way), your main flaw is implying that there is a distinction between OW1 and OW2 when they will in fact be the same game as it applies to multiplayer. This is like picking a balance patch and treating it like it is a different game.

3 Likes

So you’re under the belief that 5v5 and 6v6 are practically the same game? Because I believe the opposite. That’s like playing Overwatch before Brigitte was released vs playing after she was released. Night and day difference and it snowballed a lot the changes that we are use to seeing today.

7 Likes

Close range characters are actually harmed a lot more by 6v6 than they would be by 5v5

The problem with Symmetra is her damage needing to build up. With less health to chew through in 5v5, keeping her damage built up won’t be as much of a concern.

Like, instead of needing to chew through Rein’s barrier to then worry about Zarya, to then worry about Rein again, Symm would just need to chew through Rein.

1 Like

Imma be honest and say that my friends and I have hated the idea of 5v5 since it was announced, for a very personal reason: it was one of the few games that allowed Six whole folks to play together at once. Theres a lot of us, and we enjoy games like apex and fortnite but those limit you to 3 or 4 per team. I’m very sad that this game will have 1 or more of us sitting out than what we were used to XD

On top of that, I’ve thought about how the professionals will just have to??? get rid of a dude now? As well as the typical issue of balance and the newfound pressure tanks will have with only 1 of them filling the role. If a mercy is bad and constantly dying trying to hang with a flanking dps, I can pick up the slack solo-healing. If I see a rein that is constantly swinging away instead of shielding the squishies, i can compensate as an Orisa. I only go off on my nonsense to kill healers as monke if I have a nice backup tank actually doing stuff and pushing point. If that second person is gone from the picture, I have to be perfect and hope for the support of my team even more because thats it. They burn me down as rein and there IS no other tank i can beg to survive until i get back. That just seems eehhhhhhh to me (i already dont like tanking cuz im a healer main and tank ALREADY feels very high pressure).

I mostly hate it for very personal and emotional reasons, which is all that’s really possible until its live. (dont let that paragraph fool ya, i MOSTLY hate it cuz rip 6th friend, you need to sit out by your lonesome or rotate in X’D)

17 Likes

You’re right. It might be.

Might also not be. Reckon we find out in 2024 or whatever

I mean why would 50% of the tank playerbase just quit playing tanks all together. I mean supports are sort of fun, but not the same. But dps is such a boring and stale role. And the big wild card is if the game goes f2p, then new players will also pick up tanks too.

Many thing can change in 5-10 years, when OW2 is still in making. We might get a new console that they have to port it to, or maybe VR games become cheaper and more popular. Anything can happen, when thinking long way into the future

My biggest concern is the tank balance in a world of one tank per team. I believe such a setting will make non-shield tanks obsolete.

6 Likes

I would strongly recommend blizzard to perform a half year experimental lab to test out all the pros and cons of 5v5.

4 Likes

The introduction of 5 v 5 also signifies the permanent ending to my OW “career.” I’m not even remotely interested in trying it for so much as a single round, even though doing so will be free. Constantly solo tanking for the first several years of OW, and Blizzards continual nerfing of the role into what it is now is really more than enough to show me that the devs aren’t trying make a game that is even remotely fun to play.

22 Likes

The DPS player base will have to double in order for queue times to remain the same, while the Tank and Support player base will have to stay exactly the same.

To say this is an unrealistic scenario for Overwatch would be an understatement, but I agree that 5V5 won’t suddenly make queues last only a few seconds.

1 Like

Yeah, I feel I’m likely to drop playing tank once it goes 5v5. I play it because I enjoy off-tanks, and solo-tanking in what looks like team deathmatch just doesn’t seem that fun. I like the freedom to choose when to peel, when to push, and who to focus. Solo-tanking is less fun and more a chore for me.

If ‘brawler’ is just code for ‘short range dps’…might as well not take on the responsibility of being the only tank and just play Tracer.

9 Likes

I couldn’t agree more

1 Like

Since they’re just making all the tanks more off-tanky, or more accurately more DPS-y, I’m tentatively excited to play in 5v5. I hope they go forward with the name change to Brawler as well, the idea of being a Tank like it’s World of Warcraft has infused much of the player base with the false notion that their job is to sit at choke with a shield up. Having less shields in general will also help steer players into proper positioning and usage of hard cover which will have some growing pains and complainers but eventually lead to a better state of the game.

2 Likes

The final nail in the coffin to make Overwatch even better, you mean

1 Like

Incidentally, this is one reason actually against many social services - the more you create, the more people demand them to use. A sparse use of them is wisest in the long run.

I am 100% sure this is going to be the case. Even the devs hedged on how much improvement queue times would see with this move, they know that half the tank players despised the 1/3/2 format. Reducing to two DPS doesn’t solve the fundamental problems it has. I actually have come to believe there is a real chance of a return to 2/2/2 after a year or so, and I would not have thought this before hearing all the issues surrounding it beyond just tank dissatisfaction.

I can’t wait for 5v5
One less terrible player that the game decides to place on my team that probably can’t tie shoelaces.
One less player I have to kill
One less overly strong hero that has 2/3x the hp and damage of a DPS player

No I believe they will be drastically different and it will be one of the larger changes OW has ever done. I am not sure it will be larger than the 1 hero limit or Role Queue, but it very well could be. However, it does not change the fact that OW1 and OW2 are the same and the comparison is the equivalent of wanting to go back to a random patch.