Yeah, especially since they used the cursed number “50%”
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Exactly, they think that narrowing down the hidden MMR and THEN rigging the matches more accurately for 50% will help. But this fixes nothing about the problem of players that never learned the game being used to “balance” better players.
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Yep, SR was a fantasia number that got deflated and inflated by RQ itself. Which lost it’s “value” as parameter to anything due the nature of RQ itself.
Which is why, often this is pointless at certain degree on RQ. isn’t invalid just don’t show the whole picture while were more reliable, as funny as it sounds on Open.
As far I’m aware, each mode has their own MMR and your value on each of those modes will differ. While the goal should be that on each mode you reach the same MMR, often isn’t the case due the number of matches, how folks behave on those modes and mindset about each mode.
They’re trying to avoid that, by in cases like there’s a discrepancy on supports or damage, you will have on both sides similar ranks like: Low rank dps/support on both sides paired with high rank dps/support on both sides. The tank will follow the same pattern mirroring the skill of the tank on the opposite side.
The issue itself was more related to newer accounts and groups. The game always behaved like they explained above. But they didn’t had good solutions to target those 2 crowds. They often used the average on the playerskill, which worked for QPC and Open but would never work on RQ.
Their competitive system was done with QPC and Open in mind, right now they’re fixing the mistake done by properly making the game work on RQ. Which took, 3 years for that… I sincerely hope they not take more 3 years to make 5v5 actually work as well.
At least is better to hear about them instead of them being tone deaf. While the new system often don’t give useful feedback on each match. At least isn’t giving you a non reliable metric to actually gauge your performance. MMR is a performance metric aligned to the average on that same MMR, if you overperform your MMR increase if you underperform your MMR decrease. Takes time to actually land where it should be. Which is why, the “tendency” to land around 50% win rate and folks calling it rigged. While in reality their goal is to find fair matches and if you reach 50% win rate often means that you’re within your “performance ceilling”/“wall” and to leave that you need to improve consistently.
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Everyone knows it’s broken, this post is created because it is broken. You are not saying anything new.
And saying “End of Story”, does not make it so.
I suppose you just came to just say what they said but in bold as you ignored my question about one of their solutions that does add some complexity to the problem.
That’s a group issue or a queue time issue. The way to fix that is to either disallow groups or to allow for increased queue time. The matchmaker looks for people within a narrow skill range though. Worse players aren’t handed to better players in order to reduce the better players’ win rates. That’s not how the system has ever worked.
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I’m not a fan that it sounds like you’re intentionally lowering peoples rank at the start of the season. I find that to be really aggravating because it erases my progress from one season to the next… and if I’m barely being rewarded for my time in competitive with points, the least that could be done is to NOT intentionally lowering it!
That is super frustrating and makes competitive feel deeply unrewarding to have that progress reverted at the beginning of each season, paired with imbalanced new heroes and stark balancing failures.
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Kind of, but the way they are doing this matching fix, kinda solves a lot of diffs.
Since instead of trying to get an equivalent average SR per team. They are going to try to have equivalent players per team.
Even if that means both teams have
- GM Tanks
- Masters DPS
- GM DPS
- Diamond Support
- Gold Support
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SR is not calculated, it’s earned, based on win losses. If you play good, you earn SR because you win more, simple as that. MMR is based on wizardry that cannot take everything into account (imagine you are place in “a bad team” and get stomped, you die more, you do less kills, you do less damage, and the MMR system then thinks you should get lower MMR because of a bad decision it did in the first place)
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No this post is them admitting to artificially tampering with matchmaking and saying they will continue to do so even further to manipulate games.
They literally said it themselves. They purposely place lower ranked tanks on 1 team and then a higher ranked tank on the other which creates 1 sided games
Its right there in black and white
Soon they say they will be changing it to where you will be getting games where both teams will have for instance: a plat tank, 2 diamond dps and a plat and masters support. Their argument is this is better because instead of having 1 player in a role better than their mirror on the enemy team, both teams will have the same ranked tank/dps/support ratios on both sides so its therefore fair
I say that is BS. That is literally rigging and artificially altering matchmaking. Instead of just letting the matchmaker find teams of equal skill where everyone on both teams is the same, we are going to be getting these fake matches where people are pulled from all over the place to create frankenstein monster teams. I don’t want a plat tank on my team regardless if the enemy also has one. Sorry.
The game should just matchmake people with others in their rank. Why is that so hard? Why can’t i play 5v5, all masters. Why am i having random people thrown at me and told to adapt. That isn’t a balanced game, thats a joke.
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This is good and all but:
-if the mmr is the actual indication of skill why not show that instead of ranks?
-if the groups affects the matchmaking in negative way, why is there no solo only queue yet?
For example, we might match a highly rated tank against a comparably lower rated tank, so even if the overall match is balanced, the competition between tanks feels very one-sided.
This is where all the problem starts. You give someone bad teammates and expect them to carry their whole team.
Also what happens when new players are put together with old players who are bronze 5? The gap in the skill is still like night and day.
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The interesting thing about this will be Smurf games. Imagine your diamond support being an undercover GM 
No one said it isn’t…
All good mate.
Feel free to carry on the convo without me.
Funnily enough, I would argue it’s the opposite.
SR is still calculated as you get different amounts for winning and losing based on various factors. That is a fact.
I think the key difference is that MMR can go up even if you lose and SR goes up only if you win and down if you lose.
So MMR looks to correct the mistakes of the matchmaker in that respect whereas SR can amplify them.
Whether it does that “well” is a different discussion…
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Well I think that’s the issue though, they will probably be matchmaking the MMR first, then match for the best available SR equivalent second.
With that best available SR match requiring two near identical players for that role. So if they can’t find a good match, they go closer to the middle ELOs.
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Also it’s not explained how this hidden MMR calculates things when you change heroes within a role. You could very well be Master skill with Ashe and Plat skill with Widow. Does it do an average of skills of the heroes pool, or does it simply ignore the fact that you have different skills with different heroes ?
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If games are always determined by MMR which we cannot see, how can we tell what rank we are let alone what rank our teammates are.
in theory we can have a game where the rank displayes to have one player in each rank, from bronze to top 500, but the MMR they are all even. from that point of view, if i was a player in that game, what is my rank? it could be anything.
i personally believe i should be high plat, or diamond in favorable metas, but how can i be sure if the rank i see and the rank i play in are not actually connected? is there a certain number of games i must play to be sure what is shown is aligned with what is in the MMR?
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This problem exists regardless of whether they use SR or MMR no?
I do think it’s a problem though… I’m significantly more skilled with one tank than the rest… so I guess my MMR and SR are largely dictated by the balance at the time
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This is a GROSS misreading of what they said.
What they actually said was that the matchmaker, right now, is more worried about the TEAM balance, which sometimes leads, inadvertantly, to the severe role imbalances. Which they acknowledge as a problem as are trying to fix.
You are trying to twist their recognition of a meaningful problem into some kind of deliberate malice.
Just stop. They are not out to get you.
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The System can’t know which Hero you will Pick so you will have a combined MMR.
IF you are a Widow OTP in GM and suddenly pick Junkrat thats a Player Issue and no System in the World can fix that.
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It’s all smoothed by time. The more a player plays the game, the more he gets wins and losses that place him in a SR that actually reflects his real level, point from which he can improve, or stay at 50% winrate.
If by dedication that player improves, he’ll get more winrate, then climb “the ladder” as it should, tell me where a hidden MMR is needed in this scenario ?
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I’m replying because you elaborated (although you still didn’t answer the question)
You may not want it but it doesn’t mean it’s not balanced.
And matchmakers are actually artificial.
I don’t understand what you mean by “rigging” in the scenario you suggested.
I would suggest taking the below advice to heart:
They simply have a system that doesn’t meet the goals and it’s ok to discuss the problem and potential solutions (which I tried to do with you).
It seems groups are a huge source of the problem…
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