ah your data sources are incredible, they are even more accurate than Blizz’ huh?
But as I stated before that is speculation. You have no evidence to back up the claim that Trophy hunters were causing a meaningful occurrence of the event discussed. What could be and what potentially could be is irrelevant to what happened.
We determined what happened with data, evidence, and numbers.
Not with, “Well, X MIGHT have happened” and argue for that without anything to back the claim up.
Could Trophy hunters have contributed? Sure. But did they contribute enough to be considered anything than an Outlier? We don’t know and arguing otherwise is fallacious.
I’m not arguing against it having needed something to be done. I think it did need something to happen. My most disliked forum post ever was at the height of it saying there needed to be los checks and such because it was obvious bs.
But it does matter that the majority didn’t do it or didn’t like it because a lot of people try to discredit people and disparage them for not finding Mercy fun at the moment with the idea that most of them just want to hide.
The devs did not state most Mercys were doing it, they said they felt the kit encouraged it as a strategy and that it was disheartening on the receiving end.
Thread number 173 about “Bring back mass ress”.
Yes it encouraged hiding. No its not coming back.
No it wasnt removed because it was “unfun” to play against, it was because it had no counters :
- Mass ress with invul = Broken
- Mass ress without invul = Death Sentence (this was said by mercy mains)
Mass ress is dead and it is how it should be. Focus your suggestions on Valk and stop spamming the forums dear lord.
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I never stated it was meaningful, to be fair. I just feel it would have influenced the console QP meta a bit.
Everything is irrelevant to what happened. Valkyrie has been part of the game longer than mass rez, at this point, I believe. It is just fun to discuss and I never really heard the achievement argument before, so I wanted to talk about it. Simple as that, really.
As far as I can tell, you guys are interpreting the data differently.
Well, there was the achievement premise that is literal evidence. I did not pull this out of thin air, as amazing as I am. If you want to blatantly ignore information, be my guest. As I stated, I am not really trying to convince anyone. I, personally, have a deeper understanding of a potential cause and that is more valuable to me than other people thoroughly examining the debate from all angles.
Uh huh. The game was just different back then, it had a different player-base. That is some context for you. “Fallacious” or no, Occam’s razor easily applies here.
every move they make is backed up by their internal data, whether their choices are to your liking or not is not really the issue here, do not state that “most mercies” didn’t hide because you cannot make that assessment and back it up, you think you do because your personal experience is that you didn’t hide, however it was very well known that the best mercies were the ones who actually hid, coaches and streamers did tell Mercies to go and hide which doesn’t happen anymore
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I didn’t state that it wasn’t common. I said it was not the majority. That is not the same thing.
During my rare few comp games I got screamed at more than once for not hide-and-rezzing. Whether or not I was a good Mercy didn’t matter to them.
If I didn’t hide for ult, I was a worthless trash Mercy. If I hid, rushed out and then got killed as I was pressing Q, I was a worthless trash Mercy.
Hide-and-rez was a problem, for both the playerbase at large and Mercy players themselves.
No. This thread is not about that. FYI devs themselves said it was removed because it was disheartening. They also said prior to it being changed that the game was balanced and the stuff that wasn’t weren’t the things people thought.
It was removed because they didn’t like it as a part of the game’s design, which is why they went straight to a rework.
I don’t even care anymore about Mass rez. I main Sombra now.
This thread is not arguing if it was a problem or not.
Even if it wasn’t the majority it happened enough to be a problem.
Never argued otherwise.
This is the point of the thread, the concluding statement.
It isn’t about the balance of mass rez or saying it wasn’t the majority doesn’t make the minority a slim percentage.
I thought you were remarking on the assumptions people made about Mercy players’ attitudes during that era of Overwatch, and gave an anecdote in support of that.
No. It’s about the attitudes people ascribe to Mercy players now. There is an all too common refrain that the only reason Mercy players call her unfun now is because they just want to hide again. I have seen that sooooo many different times.
I find it to be really presumptuous, because even many of the ones that did it did not like it. And what little evidence we do have supports the idea that tempo rezzing was more common than hide and rez. This points to most not doing it even back then.
This doesn’t mean that it wasn’t a large minority doing it, or that it wasn’t a problem, or that it was perfectly balanced. This thread is not about any of that.
It’s about what seems to be a too common assumption about what Mercy players want.
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I mean the only people who have the valid stats on how often hide & rez was occuring is the game devs. They thought hide & rez was occurring enough and was problematic enough to take mass rez out of the game. Arguing that something never happened isn’t really a constructive argument, because the devs disagree with you and devs opinion > community opinion.
I’ve heard people saying Mercy players want her to be OP or that we want her to be meta.
I’ve not encountered anyone saying we want to go back to hiding and letting people die.
They devs state in the video that they didn’t like the design. Prior to the rework they also said the game was statistically balanced and the things that weren’t balanced were not the things being commonly discussed.
This does not lend itself to the idea most Mercy players were doing, but instead that it was poorly designed from jump regardless of it’s stats and therefore needed to be removed.
The data we have points to the tempo rezzes being more common, and not hiding. Which would definitely mesh with their statement that the game was statistically balanced.
I am not going by personal experience. I am going by the trophy count for huge rez, healing numbers, etc.
You can argue forever how many people did it and if it was a huge problem or not. Neither of you will ever get an actual answer to this and I very much doubt Blizzard ever had stats and numbers on that. But even if they had they wouldnt share them with us ever at all.
The biggest problem with “hide and rez” was in my opinion that the devs could have easily fixed it with tweaks to the ultimate. Instead they made a terrible rework which made a lot of people unhappy for a long time. So next time when such problems occur they should try to fix them instead of reworking in an instant but since the balance people dont seem to have much of a clue they will probably mess up again.
I just hope they will make Mercy better again even though I dont think they can do it with e-rez and valk. Both are against Mercys gameplay and horrible designed.
I have. Here is one example that has a lot of likes.
You say that and it may be true in your experience, my personal experience however was the reverse, the majority of the Mercy players did hide just to ress, many of them combo’d it with yelling at us in voice to die quick.
You see, neither of us have the information, but!
Enough Mercy players did it and it resulted in Blizzard intervening.
Yes it is, because it was to get the most out of the ultimate, not the Mercy players fault, just a badly designed ability from Blizzard.
And you believe yours.
And the proofs are? Blizzard is the ones who actually know, the rest of us can only speculate and go by our own experiences.
Again, where’s the proof?
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