in 2 seconds
Also, You cant dps if you are dead, and Sym doesnt have the hp, mobility or defensive power to have a tracker beam, thats why she has the lock-on on the first place.
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Sorry… I guess I’ll have to repeat myself. What??
Old Symmetra
30 + 60 = 90 damage in 2 seconds
New Symmetra;
65 + 65 = 130 damage in 2 seconds
To understand the math you need to know how beam weapons damage works.
The old Symmetera can just hold LMB and have the enemy on screen for guaranteed damage.
All beam weapon damage is based on ticks. There are 4 ticks per second.
That means in order for her to do 65 damage she has to have 100% tracking for 1s. If she has 50% tracking in 1s the damage is actually going to be 32.5
Also unless she gets a full 8 ticks she can’t level up.
So if she had 50% tracking
it would be 32.5 + 32.5 + 32.5 + 32.5 - > 4 seconds for 130 damage.
At 130 damage in 4s would put her squarely as the lowest DPS in the game.
And as a meele unit that is not a tank doing that little damage with that little health is just ridiculous.
2 Likes
The difference is that those abilities were arguably broken (i was against changing mass Rez personally but there’s no questuon that it was higihly disliked). Of all the thing in Sym’s kit I think the orbs piercing was the least problematic since they were so slow. Perhaps that would have changed with the new speed. But also no hero has had literally every ability massively altered, so I don’t think it’s quite comparable, and I’m not convinced it was necessary to change literally everything.
I appreciate the understanding though and can see where you’re coming from.
Lock on vs tracker beam is different.
Also thats on perfect aim.
Not even OWL pros have perfect tracking aim.
Unless there are changes to Sym’s survivability she is just going to die even faster for less reliable DPS… so not worth it.
This in fact kills Sym’s versatility because she cant play as a flanker now because she doesnt have the reliable damage or can safely pull back, she has to stay behind a tank just draining shields (who didnt need countering) and doing gimmicky predicatable garbage.
3 Likes
S-Y-M-M-E-T-R-A
Z-A-R-Y-A
M-O-I-R-A
How can someone keep writing them wrong? Even their own main?
In regards to effort vs reward? Yes. However sym’s kit in general is the polar opposite on the broken scale. Her value is so minimally felt due to how underwhelming and ineffective her abilities are.
She currently lacks synergy with most of the hero’s in the game. Which does not reflect the lore behind her which is to provide creative solutions to many problems. Which speaks so much of synergy.
She has desperately needed more dexterity and a wider range of options to answer issues an enemy brings.
It may seem extreme to change everything in her kit. However, we have to remember that she has already gone through a rework which retained the over-arcing theme of her abilities before. Even then the changes seemed extreme with the addition of a second ultimate option, the increase in stacks of turrets she could hold, the increased range of her primary, and the increased health and regenerative shields on her ult. Not to mention the projected barrier.
It clearly was not enough which in my eyes warrants a more drastic step. If a previous attempt was made to change that made THAT many changes was not enough more needs to be done. I think the OW team recognizes this. I am sure they do a ton of experimenting with her current kit to see how much of it could be retained. It just could not be salvaged.
I still dont understand how you chimpmunks see ‘‘Sym needs a rework’’ as ‘‘Sym needs to lose her only advantage of ever initiating combat because I am elitist idiot that thinks that aim is the only possible skill in overwatch’’.
Sym at no point should lose her lock-on, because there couldnt be any point on her using her primary fire other that to be a mediocre tank buster. She is at this point better off using her sentries for damage from afar that going into (slightly less that before) close range to deal damage with a tracking beam when she doesnt have any of the survivability other track weapons have.
2 Likes
sym’s new teleporter is basically “give your whole team reaper’s teleport without cast time” which makes her viable in offensively and defensively, not to mention you can relocate torb turret while it’s ulted or teleport a d.va mech behind a rein right as it’s about to explode
But she’s dealing a higher base damage per tick.
Nevermind the overall increased damage against characters with armor, or the fact that the primary fire also builds ammo from attacking barriers…
Old Symmetra w/ Lock On
- Tier 1 - 7.5 damage per tick
- Tier 2 - 15 damage per tick
- Tier 3 - 30 damage per tick
New Symmetra w/ Wide Beam (no lock-on)
- Tier 1 - 65 damage / 4 ticks = 16.25 damage per tick
- Tier 2 - 135 damage / 4 ticks = 33.75 damage per tick
- Tier 3 - 195 damage / 4 ticks = 48.75 damage per tick
Zarya
To put this in perspective, Zarya’s damage looks like this;
- Zarya 0% - 95 damage per second / 20 ticks = 4.75 damage per tick
- Zarya 100% - 190 damage per second / 20 ticks = 9.5 damage per tick
The loss of auto-aim doesn’t matter here.
Assuming that the primary fire doesn’t get updated into Zarya’s 20 ticks per second, and it stays at Symmetra’s old 4 ticks per second, and that the damage isn’t interpolated between each tick but instead assigned at each successive tick (like it currently is), that means that Symmetra’s damage roughly stays the same.
At each successive tier, you can afford to miss more than half of your ticks, and you’ll still deal equivalent +1 tier higher damage to an auto lock-on Symmetra.
And given that we don’t know how wide the beam actually is without playing it (for all we know, it could be as wide as Moira’s ultimate), we can’t say that it’s going to be a nerf.
And given that Moira has shown to be very effective with her damage orb, and that Symmetra is basically getting a similar damage assistance with her turrets being able to be deployed at range, she’s going to be getting higher and higher damages than previously ever attained, even with only 50% accuracy.
And then factor in the above ammo recharge and armor effectiveness, and then you start seeing it as a buff instead of a nerf.
2 Likes
They dont know if they will allow that. Chances are they wont.
Otherwise, TP will be a niche ability worse on the ‘‘solo vs teamwork’’ scale that Sombra’s EMP/Hack. It will also be completly map dependant.
And she loses her only combat skill just to get this extremely niche, extremely teamwork dependant skill that should be on a support and not a supposedly defense hero.
Its nothing to do with her aim requirements. I personally had no issues fighting her, Moira, Winston, or even Brig. Not certain why you are associating me specifically with “aim elitists”.
The thing is that she is losing her auto lock feature as part of a rebalance that increases her effective range, damage, and overall dexterity. If she retained her auto lock with these changes she would be at the very least on the border of an unfair hero.
Her risk at dying is being reduced as a result of increase in effective range and damage so her risk of missing should be increased in conjunction with that.
You do realize you spent all that time to prove your self wrong right?
Don’t know why you did.
All you had to write was.
“Yes her Original Beam lets her do 100% damage”
“Yes you will only do more damage if you have god like aim and can track every character perfectly”
So unless she gets 100% tracking, she will be doing less damage overall, regardless if each tick does more. As I said original symmetera = garunteed damage.
New Symmetera = heavily reliant on players ability to track.
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Re-read, please, just so you don’t keep spreading this nonsense about “god aim”.
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That is going to do nothing. Her worst match-ups are still terrible (or worse, RIP Photon) while she loses her good match-ups. Her effective damage is going down because she loses lock-on. Her range will not allow her to do anything vs her worse match ups.
Also wtf is ‘‘dexterity’’. Is that just another way to say aim, because if its so, then my aim elitist comment was right on point.
Why would I want to re-read something that is wrong?
A tick is only applied if the beam is on the target otherwise there is no tick.
It is not a DoT weapon.
If there is no tick, no damage is applied.
You won’t have instant damage decay so you “won’t lose a tick” - but you only start gaining ticks once that beam recovers back on the target.
In other words basic math.
The longer it takes to rack up ticks the longer it takes to do damage.
Several things you are doing wrong here.
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You have no idea what her primary fires range is going to be. The only thing that we do know is that it is going to be longer then her current.
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You have no idea what the actual aim requirements themselves are going to be for her primary. All we know is that is not going to auto lock but will have a thick beam.
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You have forgotten (or purposefully omitted) that she is gaining a mid to long range weapon in the form of her secondary. Her secondary is going to be moving roughly the same speed as Pharah’s primary and if what Geoff has said remains true for about the same damage. Which means that her range could be comparable to that of Pharah’s depending on the scenarios.
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That regardless of how you slice it she is gaining range on ALL of her abilities. Teleport is a 25m range deploy, turrets can be deployed from range, her primary and secondary are getting increased range, and even her ultimate was stated to be INFINITE in size.
How is an increase in range across the board going to make her weaker against ranged characters at all?
“loses her only combat skill” you think her track on made her a good combat hero?
If you can manage to get your crosshair over an enemy for 50% of the time, which her increased range now allows her to do so, then you can still get the ticks.
You seem to be missing the point. I said previously
At each successive tier, you can afford to miss more than half of your ticks, and you’ll still deal equivalent +1 tier higher damage to an auto lock-on Symmetra.
Let me rephrase that in plain English.
New-Symmetra at Tier 1 can miss 2/4 ticks with primary fire, and still do EQUAL/MORE damage than a Tier 2 auto-lock-on Old-Symmetra.
If you can manage a 50% accuracy with the beam, you will deal equal damage. If you rapidly deploy 3 turrets around your target, you will guaranteed deal more damage.
- You have higher damage values and you have longer range…
- No more lock-on range and disconnect range of 9 and 12 meters, you simply have the same range the entire time…
- You build ammo off of barriers which means you can maintain your damage output for much longer and keep your damage ramp for longer in a teamfight…
- You have a wider beam hitbox to make up for the lack of autoaim which could theoretically be as wide as Moira’s ultimate, we don’t know because we haven’t played it yet
- You have increased range on your turret deployment
- Turrets are invincible in the air
- Those turrets themselves deal more damage, have more health per turret which guarantees they’ll deal some damage once deployed onto a surface (a McCree flashbang cannot even kill them), and have stronger slows overall
Which, by the way, isn’t that hard to achieve 50% accuracy, considering you’re now a tankbuster (which, you are indeed a tankbuster now, with increased damage values against armor effectively nullifying armor’s effectiveness once you hit Tier 3), you build ammo off of tank barriers, and because of your new role as tankbuster you’ll be aiming at the largest enemies in the game.
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Yeah but its not going to be nowhere near Moira’s, who still can be outranged by Pharah.
Unless its Moira ult beam thick, its still going to be a MASSIVE buff to mobile heroes.
There is a world of difference between locking between Moira’s tracking beam and Sym’s tether beam on a Genji.
That still has a change time while Overwatch’s TTK is 2.0.
Also Pharah can fly, Sym cant. Big difference.
TP could be an across map deploy, so thats a loss.
Her only GOOD change is flying deploy sentries which wasnt even THEIR idea to begin with, it was London Spitfire’s/the Sym playerbase’s, which ever mentioned first.