Because completely disabling heroes outright in an RNG game mode is objectively bad. The whole idea is that you may get heroes you’re not so good at.
Please, take this argument and throw it in the dumpster where it belongs.
“Random is meant to be random” argues that random alone is an element of fun and blindly ignorant to the fact that almost all random gameplay elements have some form of moderation to ensure the player experience is actually satisfying.
Why else do you think Scatter Shot is being removed? It’s certainly not because Hanzo is overpowered. Scatter Shot just feels too random up to the point where the ability kills players in situations it shouldn’t even have to begin with. And you could argue that’s what it’s supposed to do, but it doesn’t change the fact that it’s not a fun or productive random element.
Mystery Heroes is an excellent example of this: Sometimes the game is just so random there isn’t a game to begin with: One team gets such an overpowered combo they steamroll the other team and have the ultimate advantage the entire game to deny any possible comeback. That’s generally why Mystery Heroes is scheduled a change—they really want to eliminate those kind of predetermined games.
Likewise, the point of a veto system would be to open up the mode to more type of players. Mystery Heroes can be really overwhelming to some players because it demands you have some basic form of understanding of every single hero (which is a pool that will keep growing), meaning if you’re a casual player there’s a good chance you will get stuck with a hero you can’t figure out at all and have an incredibly frustrating gameplay experience.
So how could you combat playing unpopular heroes while still rewarding players for playing well on any hero? A simple way could be to make death only remove half of your ult charge. This would make unpopular you might not like Doomfist that much, but if you have 40% ult charge on him on spawn then you might be encouraged to go in and throw a few punches to ult where as starting on 0% ult charge in a losing position with a bad hero often feels like it’s a punch to the gut.
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LOL did you seriously just compare the randomness of Mystery Heroes to Scatter Shot? Wow…
The whole point of Mystery Heroes is that ITS A MYSTERY WHAT WILL HAPPEN. It’s literally right in the title. There isn’t supposed to be any rhyme or reason to it. You take away the randomness in any form, you take away what the mode was intended for. They might as well make a completely different mode for what is being asked of in this thread (like when they added No Limits after changing QP).
tl;dr if you don’t like the way a certain mode is, then either get over it and adapt or make your own version in Custom. It’s that simple.
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Rule number one of argumentation: If you want to be taken seriously, don’t freak out about a comparison without explaining why it doesn’t work. It’s just seem as a dismissive attempt to defeat an argument, especially one based on logic, that you didn’t agree with.
This is the kind of garbage argument I just asked you to stop with with an exact example of how. Let’s take another example then. In another of Blizzard’s games, Hearthstone, you have a mode that’s also intended to be completely random picks, “The Arena.”
That very same mode was just revamped massively to add moderation to the experience due to the fact that many of the “completely random examples” often led to no player choice. Instead, the random choices were now balanced to always give the player some assemble of choice—which in turn made the mode much more rich and fun to play while preserving the random element.
You’re not explaining why those two goals have to be mutually exclusive. You’ve made up a rule in your head that you think the game must follow. But there’s tons of games today that frequently violate that rule with amazing results.
And if you can’t dismiss those examples, then you’re making for a very poor argument saying “nothing can be changed because its original design was intended to be something else”—a philosophy which Blizzard has demonstrated many times now they don’t care about (such as the Mercy change, the upcoming change to Hanzo and the upcoming change to Mystery Heroes which you seem to be ignoring in this equation as well).
If you can’t add to an argument, then please save your time. I will destroy you, good sir.
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I really don’t get the people that complain about mystery heroes. If you are having issues with the game mode then go play quick play or another game mode that you can choose your character. You’re not forced to play mystery Heroes. Mystery Hero’s is about randomness And having comps that could end up being 6 Mercy’s on one team. If that is not what you want and induces rage in you ,then go play another mode, simple as that.
Can’t quote well on mobile so I’ll just address this post numerically I guess.
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I highly doubt my wording of something is going to make you “respect” my posts more seeing as how you continue to tout my opinions as “garbage” so deal with it
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You’re comparing a card based game to an FPS. A better comparison would be something like Smash Bros, which also has a random option, and I don’t see anybody complaining about that one. It’s your own fault for choosing to play a mode that gives you a character at random, bottom line.
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I don’t have to do anything that you want me to do cause last time I checked, you’re not my parent, nor do you have any significance in my life, so why should I care what you want out of me? Also, I’m a woman, thanks
This a discussion forum, it’s not an opinion bank. I called your argument bad—and then proceeded to explain exactly why. You called my argument bad, and then failed to explain anything at all.
But let’s not kid ourselves. You can’t banter and then take offense to banter. If you wanted to play this card, you should have done so from the start.
You’re setting up this example like it’s something bad without explaining why it’s bad. Is the concept of randomness exclusive to one gameplay mode? Can’t you talk about systems using the same method of design (the random number generator) outside of each individual instance?
You’ve effectively created a world where no comparison holds water, and then proceed to make a much more faulty comparison:
According to what evidence? Show me an official forum with the same following as Blizzard’s games.
But more importantly, you’re also using an example of a game that’s hard to patch by design, where Blizzard games are actively patched all the time to keep evolving the game. Because console games earn all they need to in one go—if you’ve made the player buy the game once, you made your profit.
Games like Overwatch follow an entirely different design model because the game wants to keep players as long as possible and make sure all designs in the game remain fun (so you will keep buying lootboxes).
And we’re back to it being about the player with no middle-ground, no explanation of how the goals have to be mutually exclusive and just “respecting the mode for its original design.”
And you’ve still yet to even answer the single biggest condemning argument: The fact that Blizzard already announced Mystery Heroes is going to be changed to moderate the random nature.
And if I said I want you to lose this argument, you seem to be succeeding. 
The other day I spawned as Brigitte, moira, Brigitte, mercy, sym, Zen then sym again. Nearly threw my mouse through my screen.
I can’t stand playing supports
Wow, just… wow.
Since you’ve obviously made it up in your mind that “I’m right, you’re wrong”, then it really doesn’t matter what I say to you at this point.
I’m gonna end this discussion by just saying this. If Mystery Heroes was an issue, they would’ve addressed it by now. Other modes have gotten reworked, renamed, and occasionally changed completely because they were seen as needing those changes. Mystery Heroes has only received minor changes and continues to be the most popular Arcade mode, as well as being the ONLY Arcade mode to never once leave the Arcade since it was introduced. Why fix what’s not broken? Or in this case, what’s supposed to be broken?
Did I? I’ve invented you to inject plenty of opportunities to state your reasoning and say what you think. “You didn’t explain this,” is an ample opportunity to explain. That’s not the problem here.
I’m well aware that you disagree—but disagreeing requires reasoning. If you want to further the debate and actually engage in discussion (like you just implied), then understanding the reasoning put before you and from there on explaining how you arrived at your point of view is the way to create an agreement. It’s not:
And repeating the same argument for the third time does not automatically negate the counterpoint made against it:
I’m going through all your posts one by one. Here’s what you’ve told me so far:
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The point of random is to be random (no explanation for why there’s no degrees in this equation).
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You can’t compare an ability being changed due to being too random to a game mode also being changed due to being too random.
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Your definition of random is the only one because:
- It’s in the name. (Which apparently dictates the design, because, reason.)
- Random is supposed to be random. (No degrees, black and white, because, reason.)
- Because the player is to blame for playing the game.
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You’re female.
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I can’t tell you what to do.
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A console game didn’t get changed by a company renowned for almost never making post-release changes.
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You know how I think.
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Why improve something if it’s playable (same logic: let’s bring back Mercy 5-man res—it was playable).
If I missed anything, feel free to inject.
I’d rather not have to sit in a “queue” for 45-75 minutes waiting for 11 other team mates to join a mode that is virtually MH but with a hero limit. I’d much rather they just implement that into the mode that I love playing, in order to make it even better.
Random is one thing, and no one in MH tends to have a problem with it. Stacking heroes that were never designed to be stacked is another, and can often lead to games simply not being fun. No one tends to be salty because the enemy team got a “good comp” through luck, but they’re definitely salty when it’s obvious the enemy team only won because they managed to get 3x Orisa or a multi-Symm/Torb combo on defence.
The fact that you went out of your way to quote all of that is both impressive and terrifying. Not sure why you’re so obsessed with my opinion in particular (when several other people in this thread have stated the EXACT same opinion as me). I never wanted to get into a discussion in the first place, I was just simply stating my opinion. You however decided to directly insult my opinion by calling it “garbage”, so I felt a need to respond. I don’t have to defend my opinion any more than you do, I just had a problem with the fact that you insulted me. Is that a good enough explanation for you? Or do I need to write out an essay for you to accept my statement?
I’m not on a mobile. Scrolling and selecting text with my mouse is seconds of work.
No one but you challenges those arguments. And as you said, it’s an open forum—anyone is welcome to make a counterpoint.
But I think there’s some fundamental misunderstanding on your part as to why no one is making any counterpoints. Because Blizzard already stated they’re changing the mode. It’s kind of hard to say, “Random should be random because that’s how it was intended to be designed” when the designers literally said they don’t like the design either.
This is public knowledge.
Once again, this isn’t an opinion bank. It’s a discussion forum. This is where your opinions get challenged intellectually through the art of argumentation.
You could have the opinion that the earth is flat. You could post that opinion. Chances are it will get debunked pretty easily. But you know, there’s people out there too who still insist the earth is flat even in this century. Because that’s their “opinion”.
I called your argument garbage. Because it’s an argument that gets repeated constantly without any reasoning to back it up. You have every ample opportunity to defend it. You don’t get to play the “you insulted me” card when you’ve insulted me in your every single response. Playing the victim doesn’t work if you’re using it as a means of offense.
Honestly… I don’t mind the double, triple heroes that end up on teams. That’s what makes it kind of fun. However, I understand OPs issue. To be honest… I statistically get both Doomfist and Genji 6 times more then any other heroes on the list. And I loath playing those two heroes. My issue with Mystery Heroes is the RNG for myself is very very wonky and I usually only ever end up circling through a small number of heroes a lot more then others.
I am alright Good at Widow, Sombra, Mercy, and Orisa. I am ok with Mei, D.Va, Tracer, and oddly enough… Reaper. Out of those heroes, I get Reaper the most. He also happens to be the hero I do not play outside of MH. However, that said, These are the heroes I rarely get. If I ever do… It is at the very end of the game when I can’t even make it out of spawn before the loss.
There is no reason why I will play one game and get, Doomfist 2 times. Genji 1, Maybe Zen, Maybe Zarya, then back to Hanzo or Geniji again. Before I see a Widow, or Sombra. I should not be getting the same 5 or so Heroes every single game I play. I got Genji twice in a row. Died as him, respawned as him again. That is horrible RNG. I think they give you your least played heroes more on purpose. And that’s not fun.
I enjoy the randomness. But I don’t enjoy randomly always giving me the heroes I hate playing 6 times more then other heroes I at least can find some fun in playing them, even if I don’t main any of them in any way. If the game gave me the entire roster more then just a small collection 10 times more then the others, Id feel like Mystery Heroes is fine. But the RNG for just the player alone, is really bad. At least for me. Id like to check off both Doomfist and Genji because i honestly get them way too many times then I should be, and I hate playing them on top of it.
Honestly I disagree. If given the choice I would have locked off Pharah, Roadhog and Reaper every single time. I just hated the characters and didn’t think they were cool in the slightest. But after being forced to play all three I realized I REALLY liked playing them especially Pharah. Yes mystery hero’s builds bad comps and makes people play hero’s that sometimes they hate but for me without it I probably would never tried any of them. Which would suck for me because right now I’m starting practice with them in AI and I’m about to move up to QP with them so I can eventually take at least Pharah and Roadhog into comp.
Dude, I literally couldn’t care less what your opinion of Mystery Heroes is. You however seem to be very interested in mine. Not sure why, but whatever. I’m just trying to defend myself at this point since you continue to belittle me at every opportunity you get.
I think you need to read that quote from Jeff more closely because he very clearly states that he enjoys the randomness to a certain degree and is considering making a new separate Mystery mode, NOT changing the current one.
Oh no, you don’t get to use that “no YOU” argument on me. You insulted me first, dude. You could’ve chosen to engage me in a civil manner, but you didn’t. And now here we are, 2 hours later, still arguing about everything. All because you chose to insult me. Maybe at some point tonight, you’ll actually accept that.
Stop replying then. Someone who doesn’t care don’t reply repeatedly to the same poster again and again. Do you think you’re the first person to pull that argument? It’s been used so often it’s an actual recognized trope.
I literally told you my intent on my second reply to you. If you want to dismiss my points, then you’re going to have to actually argue or I’ll pick your statements apart effortlessly.
And no, I’m not belittling you. I actually haven’t assumed anything about your person. For all I know, you could be a very respectable person. Whoever you are, it doesn’t change your arguments. It is the merit of your argumentation that dictates this frontier. Make good arguments and you’ll get recognized for them.
That’s certainly an interpretation and not one that I’m opposed to. But bear in mind Jeff’s job is not to post about things that’s never gonna happen—you’re certainly right that it’s not concrete and your suggestion does satisfy both parties (those who don’t want their mode permanently changed, and those who do).
I would counterargue that “no limits” already fulfil the purpose of “wacky combs” which is why many people interpret it as a change. But it’s not a change that’s set at any specific point—meaning it could happen next patch, or in half a year (soon™).
It’s not a toddler’s “no u” argument. It’s hypocrisy: The practice of claiming to have higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case.
You interpreted it as an insult targeted at you. You’ve decided that since you took offense to it, it was meant to be offensive and any other case would just be an attempt to dodge (your) reality.
In reality this is not a new debate, as I’ve told you a multitude of times now—your argument has been echoed in every single thread all without reasoning to back it up.
And just as you demonstrated, people think that repeating the same argument—the same myth—will somehow make it fact. But you can google “wrong myths” and get eons worth of examples of stuff you’ve heard lots of people say, and it’s still completely wrong.
That’s why the argument is garbage. Because it’s something that people repeat in every single topic as a way to throttle discussion without ever putting in the effort to actually think about it and consider the possible benefits and cons of change.
Actually I’m going to bed. It was enjoyable to debate you. You’ve given me a lot of opportunity for debate and material to respond to; and at no point have I been angry or annoyed. This is just how I debate; straight to the point and no sugarcoating. Be positive, and you’ll get positive responses. Be negative, and it’s just free fuel for a counterpoint.
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I said I was replying because you insulted me, not because of your opinion of Mystery Heroes.
Ok, except I literally don’t have to prove anything you. In fact, I never would’ve responded to your initial reply had you not insulted me. I’m actually not very well versed in sticking up for myself; I can defend another person until I’m blue in the face no problem, but when it comes to me? Nah, I’m not worth it. Thanks I guess for proving that point to me.
I still believe that if they wanted to change the mode, they would’ve done it already. Mystery is still the most popular mode, and I haven’t heard enough backlash about it for Blizz to make any sort of change to it ![:woman_shrugging:t2:](https://d74zh8edaijub.cloudfront.net/en/overwatch/images/emoji/twitter/woman_shrugging/2.png?v=5" ":woman_shrugging:t2:")
Well guess what my friend, by claiming that my opinion is garbage, I’m gonna take offense to it. If you had been clearer about the fact that you thought the idea of “adapt or move on” was a bad one, then maybe I wouldn’t have took offense to it. Wording is everything, buddy.
Well this debate has certainly given me something to do for last 3 hours, that’s for sure. Perhaps if I hadn’t felt so insulted, then maybe I would’ve enjoyed the debate more, but thems the breaks. Be more mindful of how you respond to someone yourself as well. If we’re going off your last statement there, then try to be more positive in your initial responses to people if you want a positive discussion. Come at me with a weapon, and I’m gonna put my shields up. I’m starting to main Brigitte for a reason ![:stuck_out_tongue:](https://d74zh8edaijub.cloudfront.net/en/overwatch/images/emoji/twitter/stuck_out_tongue.png?v=5" ":stuck_out_tongue:")
A good 80% of the time I try to do this as Torb, I end up killing like 3 people with my RMB in the process. XD It’s like if Reaper was a Dwarf.
But seriously, the only thing I want from Mystery Heroes is a no dupes clause. I’m really tired of fighting teams with 3 Mercys and 2 D.Vas. >.<
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Well yes, that’s my point really. There are some I am just completely wasting my time with, or absolutely hate playing.
Do you never respawn in MH and your heart sinks because you’ve spawned as ABC_Hero?
But that’s not in and of itself a bad thing. If I spawn as Sombra, for example, my team are realistically playing with 5 people until I die anyway.
I enjoy Mystery Heroes and I’ll continue to play it. I just feel it would be even more enjoyable if I could blacklist a small number of heroes I really hate playing.
I’m not asking to be able to blacklist half the roster. Even 3 was a suggestion. It could be two, or even one would be an improvement.