🌐 My 4.0 Supportmetra Concept, we need more Supports!

[Rainbow-23650]

This is good OP.

But due to all the sym haters, thisll probably be false fagged

Sad but this is the life for us non meta players, stay strong

[Silverpelt-11713]

I really like this concept, but unfortunately I don’t think Blizzard will be reworking Sym for the 4th time. But it would work really well for a new hero. Although Echo may not have been a shield generating support (seriously her looks scream shields) it could be a nice concept for another hero in the future.

[zayzi43-2522]

@JeffKaplan look at this !

[TheWorkshopr-1907]

@TTraw-2252

• Channel Shield Health on ally, similarly to Zarya’s Bubble or Brigitte’s Repair Pack;
• 25 meters range;
• No longers gives 25 permanent Shields;
• Now gives 75 Temporary Shields decaying at rate of 25/s;
• Each time Shields decay, the ally is healed for 60% of the decayed amount;
• Cooldown increased 1 → 3s;

Z12QQ. I recreated the photon shield. That was the custom game code.

Armor is buggy with this.

(The way I did this makes allies with armor take damage way less when they have a shield.

The armor is messing with the calculations because I have to set damage received on people with the shield to 0.1% and multiply the event damage values to 1000 to get the original result. This is because I don’t want high burst damage to still kill/hurt an enemy [like D.va bomb].

But because of the damage reduction on armor, it reduces that intital filtered damage, and I believe that the armor would half the damage taken.

And if you do enough burst damage to do more damage than the shield has hp for, it has to manually damage someone to accommodate for the fact that the initial damage is reduced by a percentage, but not subtracted, and the armor reduces that damage too.)

It highlights with a blue ring who you will target. The text above your allies’ head is their shields.
Press interact near the bots with a function to activate that function.

[TTraw-2252]

@TheWorkshopr-1907

Z12QQ

I tried it out and there were few things off.

Firstly, interacting with Ashe seemed to do nothing, but ok.

When I was saying that shield decays by 25/s, I literally meant 25 every second, not 1 shield every 0.02s or anything dissolve-like. This way it can absorb more damage.

Also the healing doesn’t seem to work? I don’t think bots could take damage.

Overall, well done, the only thing I would suggest is that maybe Sym should wave while casting it.

I don’t think you can make full-fleshed version of this Sym with how limited workshop is, but at least you managed to create something imaginative.

@Rainbow-23650

thisll probably be false flagged

Why would it?
nice typo btw

[TheWorkshopr-1907]

@TTraw-2252

Also the healing doesn’t seem to work? I don’t think bots could take damage.

The bots don’t die. That way you don’t have to restart every time they respawn. Also, I’m pretty sure the healing works.
Also, enemy bots don’t die for the same reason.

@TTraw-2252

Firstly, interacting with Ashe seemed to do nothing, but ok.

There wasn’t text above their head indicating a function. I just made 3 ai on each team for later use.

@TTraw-2252

When I was saying that shield decays by 25/s, I literally meant 25 every second, not 1 shield every 0.02s or anything dissolve-like. This way it can absorb more damage.

Oh. Ok.
[I will post a new code changing this]

@TTraw-2252

at least you managed to create something imaginative.

I get it.

[TheWorkshopr-1907]

Ct4y4. I made the decay like you wanted it to be.

[TTraw-2252]

Wait. Already? I can’t test it rn, but Imma check it out tommorow!

[TheWorkshopr-1907]

Just had to set the subtraction of the variable to 25, the heal to 15 (scaling with var if below 25) and the the delay to 1 second.

[Tobsi-21949]

It’s kinda the same concept you posted a while ago (with those fancy animations).

My rework concept for Symmetra w/ Visuals [Workshop WIP]

Code for Workshop Prototype at the bottom of the post.

Introduction: (click to expand)

So I’ve noticed lately that Symmetra’s state and rework is even more heated discussion than usual, and thus I’ve wanted to use this opportunity to show something that I’ve been collecting and perfecting myself over the past 10 months since the Symmetra 3.0 hit PTR. My stance on her second rework didn’t change: I am dissatisfied with Symmetra’s place in the game. And I know, upon seeing the title many of p…

I still love it.

[TheWorkshopr-1907]

This thread could use some more attention.

[Whiskeyjack-12468]

Completely disregarding the numbers (as they’re definitely oppressive), I feel like the goal of this is to give Sym everything that she’s had in the past except for her current ultimate. I don’t think it’s understood exactly why she was changed in the first place out of those abilites. Personally, I think that they were/are too situational and thus limited Sym to the niche role that has defined every iteration of her (including her current one).

With these changes, she would have more passives and abilities than anyone else in the game - by far. Two weapons each with an alt fire in addition to max abilities and a game-defining passive? She would literally have the kit of 2 heroes in one. To balance this, it would involve toning the actual numbers down so far that she would still be niche (as virtually all of these abilities are still situational). I also really don’t like bringing shield gen back.

With that said, I do like a lot of the ideas. I think it’s a good idea to move her to support and I think that with modifications and reductions a lot of these abilities could work. The health-to-shield substitution in particular would be cool (although 15m is a very short distance plus it’s completely passive… little strategy involved with that).

[GhostPepper-11725]

Someone has a lot of time on their hands with the Corona quarantine…

[EvelUp-1190]

@Whiskeyjack-12468

I also really don’t like bringing shield gen back.

You can’t deny though that shield gen enabled a lot of Genji/Tracer play for a lot of the playerbase.

We may not have been playing “dive” per-say, but there was a defined role that flankers were uniquely suited to address in casual play. And considering the introduction of Brig and Moira, as well as the loss of hide-and-Ress, I think it’d be good to give back flankers more roles to fill in a team.

[Whiskeyjack-12468]

Extra shields is one thing. Attaching it to shield gen is quite another. Makes it incredibly map situational. Really am not a fan of semi-permanent ults that rely on map layout to be useful long-term, which historically has been how Sym 1.0/2.0’s ultimates got value.

[Fancybelle-2399]

I like a lot about this idea, but think it is… overworked. Even with all these changes, I honestly think she still fits the role of a utility dps more.

Don’t get me wrong, I would love for Sym to be more shield-hp based, and the visuals from her original “E” ability hooked me right from the start, but this concept doesn’t sound like it provides enough healing or support to deserve being in that category.

A lot of neat concept and ideas are brought into it though and I want to go over them one by one to give accurate feedback from my side. So wall of text (conclusion and tl;dr at the bottom):

@TTraw-2252

Passive: Shield Amplification

• Allies within 15m of Symmetra have half of their maximum normal Health converted into Shields;
• Being EMPed simply converts these Shields back to Health;

I don’t think this makes too much sense. I am all up for a “passive temp shield gain” to all people in a radius, but I think converting hp is a bit odd, in universe wise. It also doesn’t add much to gameplay as people need the regen effect while getting attacked. Some flankers could make use of it, but tanks and other supports generally not.

Also a question is how it would interact with armor. Replacing it would be a bad thing, ignoring it and changing the hp below it would be balanced, but then the previous mentioned problem still prevails.

Since the concept introduces a lot of things, this is the most likely idea that could be removed. But I am also coming from the “utility dps” perspective, a support Sym with the mentioned ideas would definitely need a passive to help her out supporting.

@TTraw-2252

Photon Projector:

Primary

• Damage changed: 60 to 120 to 180 → 75 to 90 to 105;
• Beam width increased 0.2 → 0.35m
• No longer refills ammo on damaging barriers;

I like the change to damage, less time wasted ramping-up, more minimum damage and lower max damage (her current 180dps is ridiculously high anyway). With a lower damage difference between her 1st and 3rd damage stage, it could also be condensed to just 2 damage stages.

An increase in beam width sounds like a neat QoL change, but I don’t think it has any impact.

Refilling ammo on barriers is an awesome little detail of her gun. But I guess a support shouldn’t be spending time shooting barriers, which is probably why it was removed in this concept.

@TTraw-2252

Secondary

• Shoot Photon Orbs that pierce enemies;
• The longer orbs are held, the bigger they are and the slower they travel;
• Now only pierce barriers if fully charged

Different projectile speed depending on charge time/projectile size is a nice idea in concept that I have also played around with, but I don’t think works in practise. This is also one of the ideas in this concept that I think is overworked/bloated when it doesn’t need to be.

It could honestly just be the current RMB projectile and also pierce enemies. Why punish players that spend time holding the charge button to do more damage with a projectile that is less likely to hit?

I would not want it to pierce barriers though.

@TTraw-2252

First Ability: Photon Barrier

• Elliptical shield that moves forward at Symmetra’s run speed;

Honestly not a fan of this. I played all iterations of Symmetra and 2.0’s shield was my least favorite feature. Better than 25hp shields, but using it with even a modicum of effectiveness is highly difficult and unlike to be a useful team ability. In fact, all of the “amazing highlights” where just Sym’s shielding their own ultimate or themselves, very rarely was it used effectively for teammates.

What it could do is be a “personal barrier”. Not like Zarya’s bubble, but like Bastion’s personal shield from the beta: A breakable barrier that shields a character’s front and a little bit of their side. Make it transferable to different allies like Harmony Orb (hold to recall to recharge) and you have an ability that all Genji mains would love, haha

@TTraw-2252

Second ability: Photon Shield

• Channel Shield Health on ally, similarly to Zarya’s Bubble or Brigitte’s Repair Pack;
• Now gives 75 Temporary Shields decaying at rate of 25/s;
• Each time Shields decay, the ally is healed for 60% of the decayed amount;
• Cooldown increased 1 → 3s;

This is an odd one. I would love for the old visual to be used and the ability to function Brigitte style (honestly, her current armor pack would have been an ideal way to make the ability work).

I doubt the heals with this are enough though to justify. Her passive in this concept would include passive shield hp regen and the shield gen would also add extra health, but that’s it. The target doesn’t get health when it matters.

Also, when an enemy destroys this shield hp, does it heal anyway? Because if not, then the target is likely left with low hp regardless and a “Brig armor pack with shields” would be a better alternative. Additionally, if it doesn’t heal on destruction then the target requires two healers to keep up, putting more pressure on the other support.

@TTraw-2252

Ultimate: Shield Generator

• Deploy powerful construction that grants your team 75 permanent shields;
• Can be deployed at up to 20m away from Symmetra;

This I disagree with the most. The Shield gen on its own can, in my opinion, be a good thing, but not as an ultimate. Deploying it from 20m away is a huge QoL change that I would definitely want if it still was her ultimate, but the concept of the immobile stationary object that needs babysitting isn’t what I want to go back to and am glad we moved away from it.

Her current ultimate seems a bit lackluster at first “just a giant barrier going through the map” and I agree, it’s a bit lame. But it functions great, more reliably than the shield gen too, because it can block so, so many ultimates. It can even be a great substitute for an Orisa or Rein barrier when defending or block line of sight for the enemy healers, forcing them to move through it to a worse position.

So in my opinion, Shield Gen would be a better fit as a deployables with the turrets and teleporters in the Architech’s Gauntlets, with the following stats:

• Provide 75 shield hp (as per suggestion) in a ~20-30m radius and require line of sight
  – Shields not stackable with other Shield Gens
• Lasts 20sec
• Cost 3 ammo
• 20m deploy distance, as suggested per concept

This makes it function closer to Orisa’s Supercharger: Not permanent, but big threat. A cost of 3 ammo could be increased to 4 ammo so that destroying one quickly would not mean that another could come up again immediately afterwards.

And because of a limited duration and it being re-usable, it wouldn’t require babysitting for an entire game.

Another issue with a permanent Shield Gen is something that Blizzard moved away from: Snowballing. Two examples of it are Brig’s Rally armor and Torb’s old armor kits. They used to last permanently and make a defending team perpetually stronger the longer they survive, until at one point everyone is filled up with armor. A temp shield gen would again work towards preventing this snowballing while still being really strong.

@TTraw-2252

Weapon Switch :

Architech’s Gauntlet

• Symmetra now has access to second weapon which holds her deployables;
• Has switch time of 0.5 second;
• Has maximum of 6 ammo;
• Has no reload, instead gains 1 ammo every 10s;

I like this the most and would fix any potential issue with button mapping for her. Want to add a new deployable? Add it to the menu for “Weapon 2”.

All Syms deployables too are not required to be immediately available. While tp-ing out of a Grav is nice, the devs have made it clear that this is not what they want the teleporter to be. A weapon switch would always enforce a small delay an ensure Sym would have to think ahead to what she wants to do, which is a good thing in my book.

@TTraw-2252

Primary (Turret)

• Deploy a Sentry Turret thrown as destroyable projectile that snaps to surface;
• Has no cooldown and costs 1 ammo from Architech’s Gauntlet;
• Damage per second reduced 40 → 5;
• Turret deploy amount increased 3 → 6 turrets;
• Turrets slow reduced 20 → 15%;
  • This slow effect is now capped at 30%;
• Damaged enemies are now affected by teamwide reveal;

So like the current turrets, but better for gameplay. I like the cap at 30% slow and I would like to see a cap like this for her turrets in the game right now too.

This suggestion though is made to “tell you when flanker is approaching your Shield generator thanks to the reveal effect” and “can be used on any flank route you’re unwilling to scoute yourself”, which I think doesn’t require six turrets, 3 are enough for this purpose.

I will also add the idea: What if it didn’t apply damage or slow? The low damage and slow aren’t as noticeable (they can have impact, it is just a low one) and removing them would mean the turret loses its beam. And without a beam giving away its location, it would be the perfect security camera, especially if it also detects Sombra’s, so there would be a neat little interaction going on of both of them countering each other.

@TTraw-2252

Secondary (Teleporter)

• Place two-way teleporter between current position and target location;
• Has no cooldown, costs 3 ammo instead;
• Now only lasts 15s;
• Multiple teleporters can be deployed at the same time;
• No longer teleports turrets;

I like all of this. Limited duration especially, hopefully infinite duration on the teleporter gets removed for good (again).

Multiple teleporters can be weird, not because of the chain they can create (you could probably pull some cool “bait and switch” with two of them), but because it could confuse a teammate about which one is going where in the heat of battle (especially when they are standing right next to each other and you don’t even know which one you are going to get).

Conclusion
This concept brings in a lot of cool and unique suggestions, but I don’t think they work for a support. The job of the current supports already is very taxing on all their resources and this concept does not include enough heals or protection to validate a change to the support class.

Unfortunately I don’t think a shield based support can have teleporter, turrets, shield generator and barriers on top of actually healing people, so I believe Sym’s core abilities keep her rooted in the dps class. Which is fine for me, since I want some dps to be utility focused, as we have way too many that aren’t.

A lot of old abilities would be brought in this concept, but aren’t reworked enough to fix their old problems. Babysitting a Shield Gen, because it is your ult, isn’t fun gameplay in my book, and was removed for a reson. The moving barrier had its uses, but too many practical lack of uses. And I would not like to see Sym 2.0’s kit back.

My personal favourites from this take though are:

• Less charge time for her primary with higher minimal and lower maximum damage stages
• Orbs piercing enemies (not barriers)
• Ability to give temp shield hp to allies (Photon Shield) (a bit because I really like its old visual effect)
• Architech’s Gauntlet as a weapon switch, opening up the option to deploy anything without messing up her control-scheme (could be realised as a menu similar to the comms menu)
• Changing turrets to be an information-based anti-flank tool, not a “let’s make this choke more of a chore”-tool
  – A cap on how much slow the turrets can apply together instead of reducing a single enemy down to -90% speed
• Pretty much all the teleporter changes

I personally would hope the devs take some of these concepts and apply them to current Sym. Capping slow on the turrets could easily be done right now as a QoL change when playing against Sym.

But particularly something like the “Architech’s Gauntlet” and changes to her Teleporter (the different deployables don’t have to have a shared cooldown and ammo pool and can have their own cooldowns and restrictions) would be amazing for her, since it would open up two buttons for Symmetra (Shift and E). Or just one button if turrets were to remain their own thing and Shield Gen plus Teleporter were put into the Gauntlets as a “Can only have one of them active at a time”. The freed up button(s) can then be replaced with an additional damage, utility or supportive ability, depending on what the devs want her to focus on more.

TL;DR

• To me, this concept is not enough to justify moving Sym to the “support class”
• Some ideas in here are very nice and can help make Sym be more fun to play and more fun to play against
  – in my opinion: Orbs piercing only enemies; a cap for the turret’s slow debuff; information oriented instead of damage oriented turrets; “Architech’s Gauntlet” a a weapon switch to allow for Sym to hold multiple deployables
• “Photon Barrier” should not come back, its usage was too niche to be practical
• “Photon Shield” giving 75 temp shield hp would be a welcome addition and can help out various teammates to survive
• Current ult is good and shield gen as ult / old tp ult should not come back
• Shield gen as a temporary deployable could work
• Finite duration teleporter is a good thing

[Megadodo-11333]

to OP: I personally am intrigued by the suggestions given, and would like to see our Barrier maiden Symmetra, be once again, brought into the open arms of the support team.

[Tevees-1738]

Hey, i did my own version of this, thoughts?

Primary Fire: Photon Projector

• Weapon now reverted to 2.0 Symmetra.
• Remains 3.0 primary audio
• Ammo pool is now 100
• Ramp up time decreased to 1 second
• Damage ramp up decreased to 80/100/120
• Ammo still refills and damage ramps on barriers
• Can now pick up items

Secondary fire

• Same as 3.0 Symmetra, however a fully charged Orb pierces barriers

Ability 1: Photon Barrier

• Reverted to 2.0 Photon Barrier
• Cooldown is 10 seconds
• Health pool of shield is now 600
• Allies that pass through the shield are granted a 20% speed boost
• Allies that pass through the barrier are slowly healed for 30 hps for 3 seconds after the barrier passes through them

Ability 2: Photon Shield

• Reverted to Symmetra 1.0 shield
• Now instantly gives 75 shields that decay at a rate of around 25 shields per second rapidly.
• Shield that aren’t destroyed by an enemy are given to the allies health pool, if shields are destroyed allies do not gain health
• Also heals 20 heals for 4 seconds
• Totals for 155 healing done
• Cooldown increased to 5 seconds

Weapon Swap: Architect’s Gauntlet

• Now holds Symmetra’s Deployables
• Deployables aren’t on a cooldown but rely on Ammo, six in total
• Regains ammo after 10 seconds each
• Two teleporters or shield generators cannot be placed.

First Deployable: Sentry Turrets

• Same as 3.0 Turrets
• Cost 1 ammo
• Turret stacking effect caps at 40%
• Damage reduced to 20 DPS
• Individual turret slow reduced to 10%
• Turrets that attack enemies are now shown to only Symmetra through walls

Secondary Deployable: Teleporter

• Same as 3.0 Teleporter
• Cost 3 ammo
• Infinite duration removed
• Last 15 seconds

Third Deployable: Shield Generator

• Now provides 25 shields to anyone in range of 30m
• 25 hp 225 shields
• Cost 3 ammo
• Lasts 15 seconds
• Can be placed up to 20m from Symmetra

Ultimate: Vaswani’s Protection

• Renamed from Photon Barrier
• Same as 3.0 wall
• Now recharges Symmetra’s Deployables
• Deployables are given a buff during the duration of the ultimate
• Ammo for deployables are increased in her ultimate but the cooldown is 5 seconds
• Teleporter: After exiting allies are given a temporary speed boost [Requires 4 ammo]
• Turrets: Deal more damage and slowing [Requires 2 ammo]
• Shield generator grants 75 shields instead of 25 [Requires 4 ammo]

[Reese-11488]

I think this is a pretty good idea- but the only big thing that concerns me is how it interacts with armor. Like Fancybelle said, will it ignore armor and go for normal health, or replace the armor itself?

I think if it mixed with armor- sectioning off 150 armor to act as shield-armor that regenerated like normal shield HP but had armor’s properties- it would make sense. It might be broken-ish for Tanks (although they’re not usually going to be out of combat for more than 3 seconds unless they’re walking back from spawn) but it sounds okay.
It would also stand to reason that if someone had shield HP instead, the added Sym shield hp would strengthen their already existing HP? Maybe halve the time it takes to regen?
Although the idea that it replaces the HP under it works as well. Full shield HP Zen sounds cool.
(They should really let us set Health/Armor/Shield HP by individual points in Workshop, imagine the things we could do. The reworks we could make.)

[Szuna-21782]

This thread is a huge one!
And just like…

@voignamir-2764

with concepts like these, I always ignore the numbers and focus on the main idea

I am also only focusing on the main ideas!
But your ideas are so damn amazing!
There would be only one little thing i would change personally

@TTraw-2252

Photon Projector:

@TTraw-2252

Secondary

• Shoot Photon Orbs that pierce enemies;
• The longer orbs are held, the bigger they are and the slower they travel;
• Now only pierce barriers if fully charged;
• Charge time increased 1 → 1.5s;
• Damage ramp: 20 → 120 (~75 DPS);
• Projectile speed ramp: 40 → 10 m/s;
• Smallest orb size increased by 60%;
• Biggest orb size increased by 15%

Since someone else already said other support can simply outheal the most incoming damage and the fact that you won’t create so much extra health all in all in the first place - the healing from your Photon Shield as a smaller kind of heal wouldn’t be enough to maintain the whole task as a support.

Shield Amplification as a passive is a huge idea to restore health most of the time outside of fights, but while in fighting situations this won’t be enough i guess.

So my little change would be: Turn the piercing bombs to healing bombs and Symmetra would be fine as well. They can be the same as they are, just instead of dealing damage, they can directly heal an ally.
So in cases of fighting scenarios you don’t have to watch the shield-health decreasing and Symmetra tries panically to keep the team alongside the main-heal alive.

@TTraw-2252

Weapon Switch :

Architech’s Gauntlet

• Symmetra now has access to second weapon which holds her deployables;
• Has switch time of 0.5 second;
• Has maximum of 6 ammo;
• Has no reload, instead gains 1 ammo every 10s;

THIS is just one thing i said few days ago to my friends!
Except of Mercy, literally no one else has anything to weapon swap so far.
So this swapping theme to create constructions is a HUGE idea, which would fit perfectly for Sym all in all!

I wish Blizzard would make your iteration as Symmetra 4.0 with some little tunings to maintain a little more healing purposes, such as my healing bombs secondary fire thing