Only brain dead people would die to a Moira in a 1v1 though.
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People still think itâs a lock on, means they never checked her out or even played her to know that she isnât that strong.
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Fixed it for you.
Thank me later 
remember people. You flag a thread when it goes against the guidelines, not just because you disagree with it!
You mean the same skill you use with Doomfistâs fist or Hanzo spamming arrows that can one shot no aim required (?)
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Never called it a lock on. Though in another thread someone tested the mechanics of her beam in workshop and it was an interesting read.
However, calling her beam anything less than absolutely forgiving is a stretch. She requires no aiming skill.
Donât know if you know this but they removed her lock-on on November 3rd, 2017.
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As much as I despise moira, her lock on is very important to keep tracer and genji in check. On the other hand its very abusive and oppressive against sombra, literally breaks her kit, lets not even begin when a random biotic brushes and interrupts her.
I havenât seen one substantial argument (based on an objective framework) as to WHY Moira needs an auto/soft lock? What part of her kit demands so much skill that her damage dealing mechanic demands so little?
The closest thing to a substantial argument is quoting her stats. 50 dps or whatever it is doesnât matter as long as you can contest a point and potentially get a (multi)kill by just looking at an enemy player. not everyone has full health being healed by a support while facing moira at ALL times.
Why should it take a specific counter character/dps with decent aim/dps+support to negate an autolock??? In a âcompetitiveâ shooter?? The number of times I seen Moira chase down a kill recklessly cuz they know the character skillset is soo forgiving is a joke.
There are soo many things in this game that doesnât make sense in a competitive context. Like high ground on Hanamura but theres a tree right in the middle of your line of sight. But I digress, imo OWâs balance philosophy (if there is one) is focused on metas and surface level counters. It doesnât look at the individual mechanic/characters themselves which is VITAL for any competitive game.
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Nobody is asking for an auto/soft lock nor anything remotely close to it.
Support mains (who actually care for every single support) are asking for balance, which means you canât just nerf Moira because bad DPS mains complain about her.
For instance, If they nerf Moira, i would expect them Devs to increase her skill ceiling in some way by giving her some utility or changing something else on her kit. Maybe even redesign her up to a point.
Can we agree on that or are you arguing that she should just be nerfed because reasonsâŠ
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More than just âbad dpsâ complain about Moiraâs balance state. She is an extremely easy hero that gets too much value for too little input.
The Moira apologists continually rag on âbad dpsâ not being able to handle Moira. However, they conveniently forget that Moira requires no skill, and enables bad support to get much more value than they should. The problem is bad support not bad dps.
âNobody is asking for an auto/soft lock nor anything remotely close to it.â
My question was more to understand why the devs chose to put such a mechanic in a competitive shooter in the first place. And even more curios is why was it tolerated for so long (tolerated cuz of the assumption its still in the game)
âyou canât just nerf Moira because bad DPS mains complain about her.â
And you cant just dismiss every argument with a general âbad dps complaintsâ statement. It is kinda being ignorant tbh. I literally played a game where our moira stood near enemy spawn while our payload was approaching and all I had to do was throw dynamite while her autolock did the rest. do you not see how that is not balanced? I mean why should one put so much effort into gunskill and positioning when theres a character who can perform equally or better while not even being a dps? Before you dismiss this question as another bad dps complaint, I can send you the film of the match and I wanna remind you that I am talking about the moira on my team. Surely you must have observed Moiras diving in after a big salvo of damage to clean people up and moiras chasing down kills.
I will admit to the âbad dpsâ moniker when I lose 1v1s where the other player outperformed me OR when I made a stupid decision in-game. However Im not a âbad dpsâ if the game gives the other player massive advantages that take little skillâŠwhich I have to overcome with mechanics that take comparatively more skill.
Its not fun when I do everything right and still get punished.
And its not fun when I put everything into a game as a DPS and then see Moira on the cards.
Anyway my point is thatâŠthe direct mechanic that leads to getting picks (kills) which is arguably the most important thing in any team based shooter should be earned (should demand skill). Period. The concept of risk, reward, effort is so inconsistent in this game.
â⊠or changing something else on her kitâ
So from what you said, it seems that youâre fine with Moira reworks as long as they keep the autolock? If so why?
I agree that she needs a rework along with many other characters/design of OW. But I know this is an old game and its pointless to ask for them now. I just wish to understand why certain things (invulnerable map movement, fadeaways, poor map elements) are the way they are. All of my comments and posts revolve around this. Feel free to take a look.
Same can be said about Hanzo, Dommfist, Mercy, etc. What is your point? There are easy heroes that still exist on the game for a reason.
Mercy pocket can enable a bad DPS as well and she is easer to play. Heck, any healer pocketing a bad DPS âenables themâ according to your logic.
I am sorry but the majority of complains have come from people below diamond/plat who canât kill Moira because their aim is plain and simple bad.
When was the last time you heard a high rank Mcree, Hanzo, Doomfist, Sombra and so on complain about how incredibly OP is Moira on a 1 v 1. They do not complain because they can actulaly kill her with CONSISTENCY. Her dmg is literally so low that every single DPS can outdamage her on a 1 v 1.
We can definitely agree on Devs reducing her forgiving hitbox IF they increase the damage accordingly.
Yeah, that says it all.
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Hanzo and doomfist are not even in the same realm of ease as Moira. Moira is flat out much much easier to play than either of those. No contest. Mercy may be about as easy, but doesnât get as much value as Moira.
Yeah a lot of complaints come from dps because they actually have to aim to kill Moira. So when they have bad aim they canât. That is fineâŠworking as intended.
The thing that is completely hypocritical is the fact that Moira does not require aiming to get her value. So bad Moiraâs can still kill with ease. No defense of Moiraâs state should include âdps just canât aimâ arguments until Moira herself also has to aim. Moira should have a much tighter beam hitbox and resource generation buffed to offset less consistency.
Congrats she doesnât have one
Being real though we all know you mean her beam width and Iâm going to do something dangerous and assume you want it sym/Zarya sized correct?
If so thatâs⊠A terrible idea
Agreed. But dude, If Moira is using right click to kill some DPS, and that DPS cannot finish her before dying⊠That is DPSâs fault, like any DPS can do so much dmg that it is just sad if a Moira kills you with right click every single time. I do not include her orb because then we get into the realm of cooldowns and itâd be a mess to include every single DPS cooldown lol
This is what I am saying xD Decrease her beamâs hitbox as much as you want BUT they need to buff her dmg/resource generation as you say. Otherwise what is the point? Just nerf because⊠reasons (?)
Its not as big as you guys say sure its forgiving but its not the size of a truck like all you Moira haters lile to claim
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Can you define what bad dps is? Cuz you just seem to use that argument no matter how much I substantiate my overall point. My point is there should NOT be a mechanic that allows for any character to go inâŠLOOK at peopleâŠand get kills. this happens no matter how good or bad of a dps I am. But according to you it seems that a dps is âbadâ if they didnât perform flawlessly regardless of the context or the enemies abilities. Iâm sorry to say but thatâs not how competitive game design works.
You had the chance to look at my film and decide OBJECTIVELY whether I am a bad dps or not but you chose to pick a quote and that too out of context to reinforce your âbad dpsâ argument.
EDIT: so in that game all of my team did well to get the payload 98% of the way. But I would see we won because Moira was at the enemy spawn sucking people dead off of our teams damage. To me that is cheap because her kit doesnât take skill. In essence we won that match cuz of her autolock. Which you assumed cuz it was bad dps. When someone outperforms the other it doesnât necessarily imply that the teammates are âbadâ.
But lets follow your line of argument. Lets say my teams on respawn, I have a moira chase me down (as Ashe). So in order for me to win/surviveâŠI have to negate her autolock which can go through walls, I have to land all of my shots, I have to deal with her orb and finally I have to deal with her fadeway. Meanwhile all she has to really do is strafe and keep an eye on her health.
Now lets take the same scenario and have me as Reaper.
Now Iâm asking you lets say Moira won in both those scenarios, would you say both those dps are bad? Can you really not see how context and specifics matter when talking about balance and game design?
Having said that, I rarely get killed by Moira cuz I position myself well, but when I do find myself face to face with her the odds are so stacked against (as Ashe)âŠbecause âreasonsâ
This is such an tunnel visioned way of looking at how the game is played. Not every 1v1 fight happens with ideal conditions. Not every fight lost to a support class is because the dps is âbadâ. Hell Iâve been killed by a mercy a few times. Does that make me mad? No. Do I want her reworked? No
Why?
- Cuz I was low on health
- Mercy had to ACTUALLY aim
- Mercy has no invulnerable escape so shes putting herself at considerable risk, for a reward that requires considerable effort.
- AND I missed a few shots.
Can you see the difference?
Ok, so are you a tank? Because honestly unless your teammates are poorly positioned, as a DPS you should either be behind your tanks and in front of your healers, OR behind your healers (Widow, Hanzo, etc.). If that is the case, your 1 v 1 perfect scenario does not exist as you have said because you are right, you HAVE HEALERS AS WELL (two of them) and another DPS. Now please tell me, how in heck is Moira supposed to kill you in those conditions.
The way she works right now is:
*To either punish flankers. She is an anti flanker hero after all.
- To punish extremely risky/unncesary plays.
- To punish extremely bad positioning.
- To finish low HP victims.
So, when you tell me that you lost a fight against Moira. Your healers were dead or you missed almost every shot. A combination of both. You were at low health, etc⊠Like I am trying to make my mind around your scenario of losing as Ashe to a Moira and I canât unless one of more of the things I have stated were in place.
Why? Because Ashe has every advatange against Moira. Long range dmg. Free jail card to pull herself away from harm. And unless your healers are dead you should have heals yourselfâŠ
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They would have to rebalance the rest of the support lineup to make them better at fighting back.
I mean, there is space to make her less of a one sided fight, but, going back to early days would be super bad.
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