Moira is the better pick over mercy

I can say without blushing that many players feel she is already well balanced, impactful, and fun to play; and as such, needs no buffs at this time

The comments from Geoff do not indicate to me that changes are being made, only that they are being considered - but frankly, I would assume that someone in charge of balance would always have changes for all characters in consideration at all times. In my opinion, taking his statement to mean changes are on the way is quite a stretch.

no, but the stats on how the pick rates changed back me up on that a LOT of people think she played like garbage now.

Did you SEE the ghetto threads? They blew out the forums ability to support them they were that big.

Have you seen the number of threads since? You really think they are a sign of a Happy Mercy player base?

No but, if you want to have enough supports, maybe having her not play like garbage would be a good start.

You lose NOTHING by having her play well. But you do lose plenty by having her play badly.

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Actually I disagree. 6 months is an excellent stat to use, as it shows the big picture and history of just how long this has been going on. Data is an excellent tool when itā€™s showing a trend over time, and not ā€œwhenever itā€™s convenientā€. Stats change constantly, and a week isnā€™t enough data to make the call on whether or not a hero needs assistance. The fact that this has been a thing for so long is a problem, and no, the patches, seeing as more of a nerf to her than a buff by many, is not something I believe will magically fix it.

Average winrates > Winrates in the top 1% of players. Just because sheā€™s doing decent in top-tier play, doesnā€™t mean that sheā€™s in a good state overall. The narrowed slice of data doesnā€™t account for everyone who plays the game, and we need to consider everyone, rather than just GM stats.

Even going by 1 month of GM statistics, Mercy still under-performs compared to Ana, Brig, and Lucio. So the point still stands.

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At the end of the day, the argument however isnā€™t that ā€œMercy has a low winrateā€, the argument is that people donā€™t find Mercy engaging, rewarding, and impactful to play compared to the other main supports. Her pickrates over the span of months, as well as the devs looking into her kit again, reflect this.

Neither you nor I can predict how much usage Mercy will get in the future without any changes. Many people are still experiencing GOATs in their games, and Iā€™m still skeptical on Mercy suddenly being used again in spite of the Power creep and Ult spam that still dominates the game. So Iā€™m going to have to disagree with you there. I believe that Mercy is going to see less usage if nothing is done with her kit, and instead, more usage from Ana, Moira, and Baptiste. They offer so much more to the comp than Mercy currently does, and that lack of Utility, as well as her Rez being on E instead of Q, is what I believe is hurting Mercy, more than helping her. :blush:


~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance.
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The last time we messed with Mercy it broke the game for 6 months.

But also, what constitutes playing decently is not going to be a consensus among Mercy players.

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You can make your own assumptions on what the stats and what hundreds of thousands of players think of Mercy

I think thereā€™s a significant amount of salty Mercy players

People dislike change

She doesnā€™t play badly

If she played so poorly that no one would like her, then her pickrate would be even lower than it is

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Yeah, we do NOT want that to happen again. Which is why I am not in favour of a big rework.

People have run surveys, they are pretty consistent, surprisingly so.

assuming that the player is equally adept at playing each, I agree that in specific circumstances Ana is the best choice

If the players are more skilled with one of the other two choices, I wouldnt agree

If the situation isnā€™y optimal for Ana, I wouldnt agree

cool you got a small insignificant size of the playerbase

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Yeah, the stats are pretty clear. No hero has gained in win rate, and dropped that much in pick rates ever in the course of the game.

She lost an ENTIRE Genji in pick rates.

Certainly if it breaks a hero which they loved, yes. Have you asked yourself WHY they are so salty? Much more than any other hero mains?

She is still unique in her play style, but it is garbage now.

Cool you donā€™t understand high school stats, and why the surveys were still valid.

Seriously, for an unknown population size (which this is, being large enough), you can still get predictive power from surprisingly small sample sizes.

We donā€™t check every proton in the universe in the particle accelerators, we check a REALLY tiny percentage, but we still have a pretty good idea what they are like in general.

Seriously, just learn some stats, Iā€™m sick of having to explain it all the time, it isnā€™t even university stuff, it is just high school stuff, but people get it wrong all the damn time.

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Maybe at low ELO. Moira is a throw pick outside of niche situations (Quad tank, the ā€œwe have 1:00 to push roundsā€, etc.). At any higher level of play, Mercy is better due to damage boosting and mobility. Of course, she only really seems to thrive in DPS heavy comps or on KOTH when pharmercy is more powerful.

Damage and general survivability provided not only by the supports. All of the heroes who are part of bunker comps have an ability that helps them survive.

  • Torb - E ability (canā€™t remember the name) Overload
  • Bastion - Ironclad
  • Symmetra - Teleporter
  • Orisa - Fortify/Halt
  • Roadhog - Breather
  • Baptiste - Immortality Field, AoE heal
  • Mercy - Self heal, Guardian angel

If there happens to be a hero who doesnā€™t have a self sustain ability, they will be pocketed by Mercy.

We have Valkyrie for that.
60 HP/s AoE Winston zap is negated by 60 HP/s AoE Mercy healing

I might also point out that the other main healers are largely totally useless against a Winston attack because they cannot heal through shields.

Which was the case before she was changed, and after, and doesnā€™t cover the pick rate drop.

Her game play changed, and people left playing her in droves.

How hard is that to understand?

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Heā€™s OVERLOADING

Overload

How hard is it to understand that

She changed

people didnā€™t like the change

So they went something else

and thatā€™s Completely fine

It doesnā€™t mean the hero is broken

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Thanks for the correction.

you would not have valkyrie for every single team fight when your team is going bunker and the enemy is playing dive with reaper or pharah as dps.

its not about healing through shields, its sustaining your own team for when you get dived. ana would be the worst type of healer against dive and for dive. moira and mercy are similar with their base healing since it cant be eaten by dva. it takes less than a second to walk in or out of a winston bubble. But in that situation where the fighting is so close together, moira is able to back out with fade and survive longer with her orbs and etc. mercy can easily be focused in dive.

But it does mean they screwed up. The changes which drove them away were not needed to get rid of multi rez.

Nowā€¦given we are going to quite possibly be facing roleQ with a 2-2-2 enforcement, donā€™t you think, it may be a good time to see if we can get those players back?

You know, the DPS players, may want to have sub 20 minute queue times, and happy support players will be a big part of that.

We know a good place where they are not happy, and roughly what needs to be done so they areā€¦ and they donā€™t have to be big changes.

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You would.
If thereā€™s nothing to heal, damage boost.
Pocketing your bastion or any other spam hero can get you enough ult charge to farm up Valk in between fights + you can get charge from healing poke damage.

Wrong. Mercy is actually one of the best healers in the game with consistent healing and best at healing DPS heroes but moira and ana are tank burst healing heroes. However Mercy and Moira are the most reliable healers with lots of mobility.

Itā€™s not, but pretty much any data before the Baptiste patch is completely worthless for judging character power and their standing within a meta.

It wasnā€™t just one or two heroes that were changed. It was easily the most significant and widespread balance patch weā€™ve ever seen.

Weā€™ve seen Mercy have a MASSIVE uptick in play at higher ranks. The lower ranks have always played Mercy, thatā€™s why her pick-rate across all ranks has been pretty much the same, albeit with a slight uptick in her win-rate.

Considering that GM is the most sensitive to the meta, past the last 6 months theyā€™re the only level of play that actually plays GOATS, the uptick in Mercy play is pretty indicative of this patch being good for her.

In that Screenshot, Mercy has a higher pick-rate and win-rate than Brig though?

Thatā€™s like your opinion man.

The data shows that objectively, this patch has been good for Mercy. Itā€™s shifted the meta towards something that favours her much more than it favours other supports.

Is Ana better still? Probably. But lets not pretend that Mercy is a throw pick. Sheā€™s good with certain comps, bad with others, whether the meta continues to shift towards something Mercy favoured is something that we just have to wait and see.

The thing is though, Mercy isnā€™t a bad hero. Sheā€™s just a bad Deathball hero. Always has been, and short of deleting Lucio, Moira, Brig, Ana and Baptiste from the game, probably always will be.

Can I predict the future? No, Iā€™d be making a lot more money than I currently am if I could. But I can read the data and while the dust still has to settle, on ladder its not looking good for GOATS, and if GOATS is gone, pretty much the only thing standing between Mercy and being top-dog of Supports again is Ana.

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