Mercy needs to go back to 50hp/s

Damage creep never happened.

No it was not. Healing creep was a thing and Mercy had long since seen a reduction in healing output from 50 to 60 to 50 during the early days of Overwatch. The chief complaint was that Mercy wasn’t healing as well as Brigitte other top end healers because they had creeped over her. Particularly Brigitte with her armor.

Wherein everyone else saw healing reductions, Mercy saw no changes after the initial increase to 55. Even Blizzard was reluctant to boost this for a long time.

And then you add the average Transcendence healing numbers of 2.1k and… hey, Zenyatta is doing close to the same healing numbers of every other Support!

There’s a reason why Zenyatta is considered too strong right now.

This is a very false statement.

Every single Support has both a single-target heal and an area effect heal and has them them since day one. In fact, most Supports have area effect healing instead of single-target healing.

Mercy’s Revive was an area effect heal. Mercy’s Valkyrie is an area effect heal. Mercy’s raw healing exceeds Baptiste’s raw healing and competes very closely with Moira’s.

This is false. Every Support has to make choices between more offense or more healing.

Nope, this is wrong.

Metagaming is largely defined by the playerbase and perception of what is the most accessible way to win in a competitive environment. It has little to do with perceived power on individual heroes and more to do with what works best. In the case of Overwatch, certain compositions tend to work better than others in combination which tend to outvalue individual hero capability until the need is called for or discovered.

The GOATS meta, for example, largely perceived Orisa to a less valuable pick compared to D.va, Winston, Zarya and Reinhardt. This is despite the fact that, at the time, Orisa had 100% up time on her barrier. It was until Sigma and the forced 2/2/2 composition that forced the playerbase to perceive Orisa as a valuable alternative. After it was initially tweaked, many meta compositions moved over to Mei/Reinhardt compositions; despite the fact that Sigma even back then was considered very strong (and even now, prior to the barrier deployment tweaks, still is).

That’s specious reasoning and not how it would work.

If Mercy, as a support, were getting similar number of offensive assists as other supports were providing, and still remain competitive in the healing front; it would not necessarily be a problem, but it may require some looking into.

This is false. No new damage-role hero has ever exceeded the top-end damage per second of the current roster, and no new damage-role hero has ever exceeded the damage per-shot of Hanzo, Widowmaker or even Genji. And no new damage-role hero has exceeded the ability damage of any existing hero.

This is not the case when it comes to Tank-role heroes and Support-role heroes - who, in the given roles, have crept up in terms of mitigation, speed, and healing output.

This is false.

Reducing falloff damage to as low as 33% of output doesn’t seem like it would happen again after the prior normalization.

Probably will have to happen again, and Zenyatta’s orb damage would see a minor uptick in return.

Wait for OW2 and see what they do. If it’s like WoW’s attempt at diminishing returns, it’ll probably be awful.

Echo is not a flying tank shredder. Echo has difficult dealing with Tanks.

This would probaly require a greater number of barriers and increases in barrier health.

This is wrong.

Easy math:
Soldier (19 damage x 1.3)x9 = 222
Hanzo (125 damage x 1.3) = 162.5

Time is still an important factor. And if you want to add accuracy in the mix, it gets a little more complex. Then add in critical hits, critical hit rates, armor, fortify, etc.

In 1 second, she heals a single non-tank target for 28% of their health, in 2 seconds, 55%.

At any given time someone is being fired at, and Mercy is healing them, Mercy is mitigating 55 damage every second.

Unlike other “bulk healers”, there’s no travel time associated with Mercy’s healing. There’s zero-cost and no ammo. No need to reload, and healing can remain on, forever and ever.

Specious. While healing someone another teammate could die as well.

Ashe’s damage did not improve. They only adjusted her gunplay as a QOL measure and increased the ammo capacity; a change that has since been reverted. Ashe has seen decreasing damage since, both ability-wise (dynamite) and basic fire output (twice).

This is false. Any Support and Any Tank added to a team is immediate benefit regardless of their outputs when compared to others. If GOATS did not prove this; GOATS would not have happened and would not have existed. We wouldn’t have 2/2/2 forced compositions. And so on and so forth.

The biggest issue with Mercy is that her healing is largely free of cost, requires minimal skill and with the boat load of passives on Mercy, tends to be fairly low-risk overall.

The fact that her healing is free isn’t that big of an issue. Lucio is in a similar position.

The fact that her healing doesn’t require much mechanical skill isn’t an issue, either. All Supports have fairly minimal mechanical skills to perform their main job.

The fact it doesn’t require much risk isn’t that big of an issue, either. Brigitte, Ana, and even Baptiste have massive range on their healing, even if two them are subject to misses and the third is limited by cooldowns.

It’s the combination of all those factors that gives Mercy a unique edge. SHe’s not much different from other Supports when it comes to making choices (damage boost or healing, biotic orbs, crossfade, etc.), but she’s able to do it so well without much risk or cost that can be a problem. Many Supports (excluding Lucio, Zenyatta and her) had their healing numbers tweaked downward. Mercy’s healing was tweaked upward, even when she didn’t really need it. Supplying additional damage output has been Mercy’s thing since day-one and it hasn’t really been too problematic - more to the point that it was other sources of damage being the bigger culprit. Her damage boost comes freely, and limited to one target, much like Zenyatta (though, more offensively). She’s an enabler, just like other Supports, and just like other Supports tends to be built out more strongly than the typical damage role with a lot more perks included in their kits.

She probably is healing too much - especially since every other Support’s healing went down while hers went up. Damage boost is a thing, but I don’t really see too much problem with it other than it being extremely flexible compared to other damage-boosting abilities - particularly ultimates.

Most players seem to complain about Mercy boosting, but not Orisa-boosting (which is also stronger than Mercy’s) or Baptiste’s (even higher). So, reasonably, that seems to suggest that Mercy is just that much more flexible than the other damage-boosting ultimates and/or abilities in the game. Does that flexibility that Mercy has warrant her being the second-best Support healer in terms of raw output? Virtually cost-free healing? And an incredibly powerful ultimate?

I don’t know. Seems like Mercy just gets a lot perks with relatively little cost or skill associated with it. Kinda the same issue that Tanks have.

Mercy needs to go back to 50hps?

Okay, Wrecking Ball needs to be removed from the game.

Oh, look at that. Nothing changed. Oop-

Total healing amount takes account transcendence healing, it’s not added on top of that.

Revive is not a heal, for the simple fact that it cannot be applied to targets that are alive and grants no ulti charge.

Also mercy has no aoe or burst healing in her BASIC kit.

Only Ana really has to choose between support and depsing.

Baptiste loses no dps if he spams healing between his rate of fire and vice versa, lucio’s aura is passive heal and amp only momentarily stops his dps, Moira can orb and hot teammates or dmg orb while healing, Brigitte has inspire and packs she can use between weapon swings, Zenyatta applies orb and is free to do other things…

Mercy is very much constricted to doing one job at a time only and one type of beam stops her from using the other beam, aka it will lower it’s uptime.

Mercy’s offensive assists are limited to her getting damageboosted kills, which are directly comparable to the amount of eliminations other supports can get, seeing as she’s only very rarely getting eliminations of her own.

Other supports will offer not only eliminations but damage PLUS their own brand of offensively assisting teammates, like lucio with his speed boost.

Care to elaborate?

Mercy’s pea shooter is poor self-defence and 5hps burst when she ultis is so negligible I wouldn’t call it burst healing. Mercy’s value definitely comes from staying alive for as long as possible, so she can provide her non-bursty heals and utility for her teammates to capitalise on longer.

Hardly wrong, one bullet from soldier gets additional 5.7 damage, while one Hanzo arrow gets 37.5 damage bonus. Just because Hanzo has larger burst damage.

Damage bonus from one singular point of damage output is vastly higher for burst damage dealers than those that deal damage in smaller increments. Multiple increments of damage is easier to miss, but consistent damage versus more inconsistent application of burst damage usually evens out. Until you hit the case where burst damage is easy to apply, like ashe and echo.

Breakpoints matter however, as does the ulti charge mercy gets from the exchange itself. From technical point of view, accurate Hanzo would gain numerically larger benefit from damageboost than accurate Soldier during far shorter time period.

also don’t forget she can rez people which is fine some times but when you try so hard to get a kill and finally get it its just too frustrating.

This all stems from the nerfs to shields. Weaker shields allows damage boost to have more value. I believe Mercy is fine the way she is currently and does not need change.

also saying anything in this forums against mercy is considered a crime here.

The passive aggressive look is not a nice look when you have nothing of substance to say and its worse when you hide it poorly.
Look you can make all the personal attacks you want but it doesn’t make a counterargument.

I’ve already told you I have four hours on the hero in 5 years of overwatch because I have no interest in playing her.
I’ve told you I don’t have a problem with mercy’s survivability during valk and yet these are still your only talking points.

At this point I’m talking to a brick wall with a person on the other side writing their own fictional interpretation about what the person on the other side might sound like instead of actually listening.

I can tell this conversation is not going to be productive so I’m just going to take this moment to flex on you. :muscle:

https://gfycat.com/agedidealisticamericankestrel-wrestling

No it is not but there must be a reasonable argument into why mercy needs changes and we should look at the history of Mercy and why now she is good when she was ok a few months back even though there have been no changes to Mercy recently.

Don’t let mercy’s 6 resses per game with 30 second cd inhibit you from getting 25 elims per game.

Press W is the best resurrection denial you can have, as it means it’s too dangerous for mercy to go and ress or you can usually kill her instead. And if she goes for ress, it means she’s unavailable to heal and you can use that time to kill another of ther teammates and snowball from the first kill.

No it doesn’t.

Then Coalescence isn’t a heal, Nanoboost isn’t a heal, Valkyrie healing isn’t healing, Transcendence isn’t healing, Rally isn’t a heal. None of them grant ult-charge, and ergo cannot be healing.

More specious reasoning.

All kits include an ultimate.

  • Lucio: Do I speed boost my team or heal my team?
  • Mercy: Do I damage boost my ally or heal my ally?
  • Zenyatta: Do I discord that target or this target? Do I Harmony this ally or this ally?
  • Ana: Do I biotic grenade this ally and heal them or do I attack that target? Do I sleep this target or that target?
  • Brigitte: Do I Repairpack this target, this target and this target, or do I target that target and that one over there. Do I approach or Whipshot instead?
  • Baptiste: Do I deploy Immortality Field here or there? Is that team mate going to live through the damage if I heal him or do I need to deploy Immortality Field to cover him and lose the opportunity to cover for a potential ultimate?

Every support has opportunity costs, every support has to make choices.

No she is not, and no she isn’t the only one.

Assisting with kills is not hard-limited by computer-read definitions.

Valkyrie allows Mercy increased fire rate, projectile speed, flight and infinite ammo for 15 seconds. Or you can use it to heal, and damage boost, your choice.

She is neither the unique snowflake nor is she the only one capable of doing this.

20 x 5 = 100 damage per second. This is higher than Lucio, Genji, Widowmaker, Winston, and Mei.

55 healing per second for 15 seconds = 825 on a single target.
60 healing per second per target for 15 seconds = 4500. Literally up to a 500% increase.

Ashe isn’t burst-damage beyond dynamite.

Hanzo scores a hit 33% of the time. 53 damage per second.
Soldier scores a hit 37% of the time. 82 damage per second.

That’s not going to reach numerical parity any time soon.

Alternatively, you can set up Hanzo and Soldier in front of Reinhardt’s barrier each boosted by Mercy and see which one destroys it faster using nothing by basic fire. Soldier will usually win out in the end, despite the 100% accuracy. Damage parity will not be achieved in this way and it’s not supposed to.

While you are correct that break points matter, damage registered and damage recorded also operate differently in Overwatch. Hanzo can headshot Tracer and kill her, but it’ll record only 150 damage. Likewise, Soldier can spend a lot longer killing Tracer and record more damage.

Damage in Overwatch is based around the idea of being “competitive” with each other. Basically every hero is going to average out the same exact numbers over time, or relatively close. That means that Tanks, Supports and Damage are all going to reach same conclusive numbers, if they dedicate themselves to it. Because the Damage-role is “simple” and doesn’t have any other responsibilities, it can more readily dedicate itself to achieving the higher numbers. The “peaks” that Damage can reach, only really apply when dealing with Tanks. This is because Tanks are larger targets and can resist thousands of points of damage normally.

Yes it does, you can try it ingame where you get big trans and then your healing numbers shoot up.

Not sure if serious. You know your ulti gauge gets locked during ultimates right?

It is because you get a statistic value for all the kills you assisted with… you get no assist if you don’t assist in the actual kill. Just like you don’t get elims if you don’t participate in the elimination. <_>

Her healing is fine it’s her damage boost that keeps enabling hitscan that needs to be rebalanced.

And when I get a Helix Rocket kill, my Final Blows number goes up… except it doesn’t. Neither does Coalescence, Ability Damage, FTH, Visor Kills, Deadeye Kills. They’re all tracked seperately.

One of your qualifiers is that it doesn’t grant ultimate charge. None of the above abilities grant ultimate charge, therefore they cannot be heals.

So I body block for a critically injured mate and he makes the killing blow on the attacking target, I assist with that, but the computer won’t give me credit.

If I were someone who hated mercy then her healing would be the last thing I’d wanted nerfed.

Alright so from what I can gather, players in this forum want the following parts of Mercy’s kit nerfed:
-her rez
-her damage boost
-her ult
-her mobility
-now also her healing

I’ve literally seen threads (all in like the past month?) advocating for all of these to be nerfed. What should Mercy actually be able to do? I’ve also been seeing people lately claim that Mercy is invincible/impossible to kill during her ult…And I’ve gotta say that I’ve been killed during Valk by Silver/Gold players before. If I can be shot and hooked out of the air by Silver players, then I don’t see what the excuse is for everyone claiming she’s impossible to kill.

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Some numbers are tracked separately, but your healing, elims and damagenumbers do go up when you actually do things.

You even get cards for total healing done, with a transcend tab underneath it. Why do you think it’s somehow separate?

Oh you are actually serious, excuse me while I go have a laugh.

Dataset for elims and offensive assists are comparable because neither takes account indirect, non-statistical data.

In both datasets, player has to participate in the kill in some way. You can “assist” a player with a bodyblock, but you won’t get offensive assist for that. You can “eliminate” a player by making them accidentally run off the cliff or even aggroing said player to you as a tank while negating their damage so teammate kills them for you, but you have to deal direct damage to said player so it counts as an elim.

Your direct influence over the game is entirely trackable.

Anything you’d give to compensate? Your going to make her definitely feel worse to play. And I don’t think that the healing is the problem since it’s single target and not even 60. But still you would have to give something to make up for that since even if it’s 5hps less it still has an impact on her.

PTSD of Moth Mercy. Seriously that’s all it is. People ALSO claim she’s been meta for the past year when in reality-she wasn’t used in GOATS, wasn’t used in Double Shields, and when Dive came back for a stint in OWL BRIG was picked over her.

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Don’t think she needs a nerf, but healing froM 15m away isn’t that dangerous, and she is very free to move around with ga on such a low CD. Plus cannot miss her healing, unlike others.

Mercy has only been viable pick since August last year after Brig got gutted and we got doublebarier and sigma/road/ball meta going around. Even then, zen/brig was the more “hardcore” meta composition, mercy/zen was just the easier option players opted to use outside SK for hyper offence purposes. Now Mercy is already falling down as predicted with the metashift.

Interestingly, I am seeing some mercy/lucio comps actually working well, just because Echo is still very strong hero and damageboosted echo does ludicrous amount of damage. As long as echo and zen are strong, mercy will probably stay fairly up in pickrates.

15m is more dangerous than you think when roadhog hook can cover 20m distance. That’s why good mercies have to heal from behind cover and stay out of sightlines, which against snipers and all kinds of crossfire and tracers running around and tanks below, can get quite challenging at times.