Mass rez was waaaay more fun than valk.
16 Likes
Alright, I’ll bite and take your straw man’s argument.
When people say they find Mercy less fun, it’s because they’ve taken decisions away from Mercy.
By removing the interaction between damage boosting and ultimate abilities, Mercy’s damage boost is much less useful and she ends up healing most of the time.
And as someone who actually played Mercy through the changes, I can tell you that paying attention to allies using their ultimates was a big part of playing her. Quickly flying up to boost the Hanzo’s Dragonstrike was a fun part of her gameplay.
Now… you just keep healing, because damage boosting is rarely ever meaningful. And because she heals less, you can’t even afford to damage boost anymore either.
This is a problem at large with changing the power level of an original design: Many heroes (e.g. Lucio, Moira, Mercy, etc.) have abilities with usage balanced around their usefulness. You should want to Speed Boost with Lucio, you should want to damage with Moira, you should want to Damage Boost with Mercy.
Let’s say that you reduced Lucio’s Speed Boost by 50%. Now there’s never a reason to swap songs on him anymore. Let’s say that you reduced Moira’s primary fire damage by 20% and life steal by 50%. Now there’s never a reason to risk getting in range of enemies with her.
And now that you nerfed damage boost, there’s no reason to interact with ultimates on Mercy and you generally can’t afford to be boosting anyway, so you might as well forget the ability exists.
It’s this type of argument that actually supports another rework. Because the changes they’ve made to her has gradually ruined her kit. Her ult is much less interesting to use since it no longer boosts Resurrect. Her damage boost is much less interesting to use. She’s locked into healing constantly and never shoot or boost because her low output forces her to heal non-stop.
Does it make sense now @Steeb?
17 Likes
Yeah because support main have never claimed how easy it is to play tracer with 0 play time.
Just walk up and 1 clip it is easy.
Most people have actually played mercy
Have you considered the fact that players having impact on the course of a battle is considered “fun” by those players?
Especially in terms of using an ULTIMATE? Which is, you know, the ultimate action you can do to impact a teamfight?
Valk is literally a spectator cam to watch your team die below you because you are unable to actually save them.
Valkyrie:
- Chain Beams (team buff)
- Longer beam range (team buff)
- Constant self-regen (self-buff)
- Infinite ammo (self-buff)
- Flight (self-buff)
- Longer GA range (self-buff)
How is it a “support” ultimate if 4 out of 6 effects of Valkyrie are self-buffs?
People play support to help out their team. Valk does nothing of the sort. Valk is a selfish ult to help yourself. It does not (significantly) help your team.
Hence why a lot of Mercy players find her unfun.
Mercy’s basic gameplay has not been changed, no. But that’s not what they’re complaining about.
19 Likes
Because mercy mains base the entire fun on a ULT can be used every 5 mins.
The core of mercy playstyle is: Jumping between targets using guardian-angel and heal. Your goal as player should be keep 10k average healing per match and die 2 - 3 times as maximun.
Mercy mains are blackmailing Blizzard because they can’t accept their hero CANT mass-rez anymore.
1 Like
Now I can’t speak for all people when they bring up the argument that Mercy isn’t fun anymore (more than just Mercy mains btw), but I think I might be able to explain some/parts of it.
Mass Rez: The best way I can describe this is the opposite of a high killing DPS ult. That amazing High Noon ult, or Death Blossom, or Nuke, or even a full team shatter. All of those are arguebly very fun and enjoyable to do (even if its just "pressing the Q button) because they have huge impact. Whether its timing, position, or just got lucky they all had a big impact and were satisfying to do. Compare this to something like Valkyrie, where its hard to get that same value. I’m not saying that there aren’t times where Valk can have good impact, but its power isn’t as high as mass rez. Additionally, a few man rez (or even solo) could still lead to a major shift in the fight, but solo valk or just like two teammates almost never has that same impact.
[Rez could feel like a bigger impact that Valk does on average, which explains why some believe it was more fun compared to Valk]
Valkyrie: I talked about some of the issues relating to Valkyrie in Mass Rez, so I won’t repeat that hear. A good part of Mercy’s fun (again, for some people. I’d argue quiet a bit, but I’m not 100% sure) was dodging enemies by flying between your teammates and juggling the heals for them. Valkyrie has the potential of getting rid of both of these aspects. Flying (though fun for some and seemingly for you) gets rid of the need to dodge between teammates, because why would I fly to another teammate to run from the Winston/flanker on me when I can just go to the skybox or be 30 meters away from my team? The juggling can still exist during valkyrie if the team is spread out, but the webbing effect of Valk makes it so if your team is within close proximity to each other, you just need to heal/boost one person. This aspect to me is the worst thing in my opinion, because it takes away the aspects I (and others) find incredibly fun about Mercy, but I also acknowledge that I do not speak for everyone.
[Valkyrie makes it so juggling and dodging are made easier/no skill needed and thus arguably less enjoyable to play]
Healing: Minor point here, but if you heal for less, you have to spend longer on a target to heal them up. It can promote juggling of targets or switching to risky damage boost, but the fact still remains that Mercy’s number one job is to heal people. It would be one thing if she had super OP healing, but 60 hps didn’t out heal a lot of stuff, especially considering the increase in burst damage. If she can’t do her job, she becomes less enjoyable to play. Kind of like its not exactly fun to play Rein if you’re constantly getting CC’d away from your team or DPS if you have to break through three barriers before you can do any damage.
[Reducing the ability of a hero to do their basic, number one job makes it harder to enjoy them]
Final notes: Rez felt more enjoyable (even thought it was just a button) because it felt like it had more impact, Valk gets rid of the need to juggle and dodge enemy fire which makes some of Mercy’s ability to be fun go away, and the nerf to her basic job doesn’t help either. All this said, everyone’s opinions vary and I acknowledge that. I only tried to help you and others understand where some of the arguments that Mercy is less enjoyable come from. I’d like to thank anyone who actually took the time to read this and hope to not hear anything nasty/toxic/rude about the response, but still open to further discussion.
10 Likes
Nothing in the game makes me so frustrated like E rez does. It feels bad to use and feels even worse when it fails due to some bs. (Holding backwards while in Valk)
I hate it with a passion.
10 Likes
They miss having their value. They miss being a target in the fight. They miss the game of cat-and-mouse. Of needing to not stay in one place because of what they bring to the team.
Mercy as of now, doesn’t bring much value to the team. Rez? She’ll stop healing and is near immobile for about 2 secs-she can be taken out easily (I know I’ve done that many times working on my Widow play).
She can’t sustain through much of anything, and her current 50hps is slow that it really can’t even be used for a top up until the fight is over.
Yes, her playstyle HAS changed, not just her ult. She doesn’t bring her old value so she’s going to be ignored-but this encourages more aggressive play for her too. If she dies, there’s no big loss since she can’t provide big heals-and her Rez is on such a long CD, I mean it’s longer than some fights even…
That is where they’re coming from. That is why they say she’s not fun to play as anymore.
18 Likes
Contrary to popular belief, proper use of Rez required you to be thinking a lot during Mercy gameplay. There were a hundred questions you had to ask yourself and answer in under a second to figure out when was a good time to Rez.
Many that enjoyed Mercy before the reworked enjoyed her because of that mental requirement to use her ult. She felt like those kinds of characters in an MMO that required you to be able to see a few seconds ahead of the match.
Don’t get me wrong, you can still do that with Single Rez, but why would you? The ratio of energy spent to value taken out of is so much worse now, it’s better to just take every single Rez that won’t get you killed than actually try and think now.
Another thing was healing. When all hell broke lose, the best you could do to keep your team alive was to bring your APM beyond Genji levels and start using GA to fly back and forth across the whole point healing everyone as much as you could, and you had to optimize your GA jumps so that you could jump to the person that would need you the most after healing your current target.
It was frenetic, heart accelerating and extremely fun and satisfying to see you and your team survived because you brought your A-Game.
And yeah, you can still do that, but why would you? Using Valkyrie is more effective AND takes so much less energy. The ultimate just does the hard work for you. Hell, you can say “hey, I’m gonna Valk, stick to Orisa” put your beam on Orisa and if someone doesn’t get healed it’s their fault, you told them where the healing was going to be and they didn’t take it.
Also, because of Valkyrie Mercy is better off in compositions that stick closer together (not so close as deathball, but closer than usual) which means that you get to use GA less often and when you do you go slower because your GA target is closer, so that’s a thing.
So, all in all, it’s not that there’s anything stopping you from having fun, it’s just that putting actual effort into playing Mercy is so much less effective it’s downright sub-optimal. And with so much less effort put in, it all becomes not only “not fun” but really bland.
Also, the 2 second cast time and 75% slow on Rez makes me wish a Mei appeared and icicled my face. So that’s a bit of negative fun on demand.
9 Likes
First of all i want to clear that up…
Her base kit (Healing, Dmg boosting, movement, Gun) is in more than okay and has no issue at all. The only problem there is that her healing with 50HP/s is just underpowered and for that reason feel’s not that good.
Yet again, her overall base kit is totally fine and fun in terms of gameplay and strategy.
But
Valykrie and E res are the main issues.
While with mass res you needed to think about tons and tons of different things at the same time and change you strategy very fast. That in combination with her base kit created a very interesting and difficult mind game. Paired with the thrill of being the main target for the enemy made that even better.
E res has nothing of that. If you don’t want to be the main target, which is the most effective way to play her, you just use E res very sparingly only in very save situations. Zero thinking (Okay you need to know that you can only use it in save situations but that’s it), no thrill. Just frustrating and uninteresting.
And Valkyrie offers nothing interesting as well… Only dinner time.
To say it short
Mercy used to be all about smart, strategic and impactful decision making with a lot of thrill connected to it.
Valkyrie takes allll of that away and replaces it with an easy mode spectator cam and an E ability which is better used not used.
Her base movement is still cool. But the rest suffers because of that “turn off brain” button Valkyrie. Even her movement becomes a way to easy to use floating thing.
5 Likes
Mass rez was the only impactful Moment Mercy had, other heroes get this impactful, the “hell yeah” moment if you will from various places but due to the methodical nature of Mercy it only ever came from her ulti
So not only do we no longer have an impactful “Hell yeah” moment but our hell yeah moment was replaced with 2 things that are actively unfun to use. E Rez is a Self CC that disrupts the flow of the otherwise fun base kit and Valkyrie is an EZ mode ultimate that has all it’s power in the passive places. So little is achieved by Valkyrie that a really good non ulting Mercy can except the diving part of Battle Mercy which is not what people who enjoy this heo en mass enjoy doing.
There I just made sense of it for you.
4 Likes
So like any other mercy main, you can no longer climb in comp, and need to actually actively contribute in some way without an hiding behind a wall + I-Win Rez button to get potg, and boost your rank through an exploit that was fixed a while ago?
Just trying to make sure I understand correctly. Because that’s exactly how mercy mains got boosted into higher ranks. Until that exploit was fixed. Mass rez was removed because it was to powerful, and NOT fun for anyone else going against it.
Mercy Main’s Fun factor is not the only consideration here.
Just to clarify
2 Likes
Funny you talk about hell yeah moments, if I could post a link which I cannot, I’d show you a 5 man kill feed for mercy when she ult’d in Valk form.
But I guess you’ll just have to take my word for it.
I’m a sombra main myself personally, and the moments of fun are so far and few between for a Sombra, that you should just be happy you are a top tier meta pick.
You could always join us Sombras down in F Tier if you want so you know what it feels like to not be useful?
Yeah, it is true that the old ult was just pressing Q, but something huge happened then and it was pretty cool to feel like you did something great.
The problem with the new one is that you never raise your finger from the left click. She single target heals to get an ult to area heal using exactly the same button. And the fact that the reduced healing can’t outheal anything almost doesn’t give you enough time to right click anything, ever.
The Resurrection on Q gave you this huge moment you were working for. Healing for long periods of time so you can bring back 3, 4 of your team mates - 5 if you feel cocky and lucky - after a fight that turned against you.
With Valk you heal to keep healing, but in an area. And not in huge bursts like Zen, more like your common healing, but in an area. It feels like you don’t do anything different. It feels like you don’t have an ult.
Resurrection on E kind of tries to solve that, but it takes so long to use, there’s very few situations where you can actually use it, and even if you do, there’s always two fears in your mind: One, I’m going to die. Someone’s gonna peek around the corner and they’re going to murder me as I’m trying to resurrect this player. Two, I’m not healing. As I’m resurrecting this player, my team is dying and it’s not going to be worth it.
In the end, it ends up being a lot of left click pressing that never ends, with an ult that doesn’t feel all that impactful, and the only tool we can use to avoid left clicking, we get less fun from it than fear from using it.
By the way, the flying? It’s a trap. Most of the time you either fly close to the floor or behind cover or you’re as good as dead.
2 Likes
Sombra, the hero I’ve been trying to learn because she counters the bane of my existance.
But SOmbra does have her heck yeah moment, clutch hacks and EMPs. Certainly a lot more impactful feeling then the requirement of babysitting rez or EZ mode that can’t even stop an ultimate with helaing.
1 Like
It’s not even that actually. Her Guardian Angel as been buffed several times. The most fun part of her, movement, has gotten better. So, in my opinion, when they say she “isn’t fun” they are simply wanting mass resurrection back or wanting another rework because they don’t like Valkyrie.
I agree and cannot for the life of me understand why more people don’t see this.
A sense of entitlement. The erroneous expectation that the developers have to listen to, accept, and act on your feedback.
Almost 3/3 of her kit got changed now. I really don’t think she’s the same as before…
2 Likes
Them lies…
Valkyrie, Resurrect and trashy heals come to mind.
The thought process made it quite fun. This is just one aspect though. What you did was oversimplify it to a braindead fit your narrative. Please stop. 
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Configuration: Spectator
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A jack of all trades, remotely insufficient in none.
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Chain beams are boring
4 Likes
I think hiding and Rez was effective enough. There’s well know Mercy players on YouTube who made vids on places to hide and Rez.
If you’re talking about mass rez, it’s more engaging cause the Mercy player decided to use it. Save it for the 4-5 man which is a huge risk or go for the better tempo rez. Valk just feels like I’m a spectator.
2 Likes