I don’t agree. The last thing Mercy needs is for her single target healing to be even weaker than it already is, the other main healers output much higher numbers. It’s much easier to keep someone up through burst with Ana than it is with Mercy, as Mercy you are locked to 60 HPS. Not to mention her main job is to heal, meanwhile as Ana you can help your team get picks, on Mercy you rely on damage boosting players to get those kills.
Honestly, I think the biggest culprit is resurrect on cd, it needs to be reworked into an ultimate again, I think that would solve a lot of issues.
No. Moria and Brig already have this passive. I’m tired of stacking healing passives on supports which makes them harder to kill. This isn’t a problem because I’m a salty DPS player, but because I’m sick of the support metas where nothing dies.
She doesn’t need a passive, and she doesn’t need mobility. She’s fine. She just suffers in winrate because she’s a high-skill hero, just like McCree, and any buffs to those 2 could easily make them oppressive like they used to be.
Up in GM Ana’s winrate is inline with everyone elses, so it’s the lower tiers that are being ineffective with her.
She’s fine.
I have, and I get the same responces.
“Learn to counter” -everyone has, and Pharah’s winrate shot up despite Brig sitting at a 56% average winrate still.
“Play around her” -as if her 6 second, 7m stun stun doesn’t already punish you for contesting the point.
Brig needs to be toned down, yes, but Mercy is still too good for what little she brings to the table. As to how to nerf her, Idk. I can’t pinpoint the problem with her, as her kit is bones bare already.
Maybe make her more inline, to where she can’t heal through barriers, and her beam breaks after 1 second of LoS lost.
If that’s not her problem, either revert or raise the CD to 2/3 seconds for her passive self-heal to kick in, as if she gets away it’s easy for her to regen her health, which only Dive could really stop her from doing that. This contributes to this meta where nothing dies. Mercy is too good at healing herself.
I would prefer that we wait until Ana/Lucio are in a better spot until we judge Mercy. Also why does Mercy need to be nerfed to make room for Lucio, doesn’t Zenyatta take his spot as he is an off healer?
Mercy will NOT keep a bastion topped off under heavy pressure, the bastion will simply die because her healing is locked to 60 HPS and nothing more. Ana heals for 15 more HPS per shot, and has her nade ability available for burst healing, she stands a MUCH better chance of keeping the bastion alive.
What do you mean Mercy doesn’t need to worry about anything else? She has plenty to worry about, if shes damage boosting then she can’t be healing, its either one or the other. Sure she can fly over to a teammate that needs healing, but he has to be in line of sight for her to do that, as Ana you don’t necessarily have to res position yourself, you have RANGE on your healing, you can just look up to someone that needs it and snipe heal them, reducing the need to re-position yourself and putting yourself in danger.
Also skill-wise, Mercy and Ana are completely different. You are taking mechanical aim to mean everything, when it isn’t in this game. Ana requires aiming but she also has higher HPS as a result, her healing isn’t what’s holding her back, its self sustain.
Tell me, why exactly does mercy need both incredibly strong things if Zenyatta can only have one?
Wrong, so wrong. With the rework to Mercy came chain heals, which effectively put mercy’s healing 2-4k higher than every other healer in the game at the time until moira came out.
So you see then, Moira and Ana have some kind of catch to the way they heal. Mercy doesn’t. Why not? She already has Res on 30 second cooldown and Damage boost.
No, we didn’t forget. It’s just on a 10 second cooldown so isn’t immediately reliable. It also isn’t her primary way of healing.
No i read it, I just didn’t appreciate your attempt to move the goalposts so I brought the point back to the original topic. Off healer’s don’t give out the amount of healing necessary to sustain a team so including them in a discussion about main healers is, kind of pointless.
You mean the one that is to come to somebodies aid who’s in trouble, as a tank would peel for their healer. Seems right to me.
Why would mercy waste her time trying to do damage exactly? Her damage boost makes her ally strong enough to do the damage for her, and you both get extra ult charge for it.
Mercy has the best mobility in the game as long as she plays with her team. She can kite flankers all throughout chaotic team fights, and if she messes up, it’s only 1.5 seconds before she can recover it. That’s pretty great way to defend yourself and honestly it’s balanced for her character design. Adding the best self sustain on top of that is just overkill.
I agree, The meta is definitely against Moira. Her resource is nearly impossible to maintain with all the shields and Brigitte being meta on top of that gives everyone armor, something Moira isn’t great at dealing with alone. That and the fact triple support is in the meta means that healing is already too good, So the main healers utility becomes a deciding factor and like you said, Moira loses in the utility department.
I don’t have a problem with a character being weak to a certain team comp, that’s just good balancing.
Like I said; Lucio’s balance isn’t comparable to Mercy’s. Beyond a general scope, ‘are the supports well balanced’, Mercy does not need to come into the discussion about Lucio’s balance. I cited it just because Mercy is so strong that everyone looks too weak as compared.
I’m a Lucio main. I do think he needs dusting off. His ult needs slight reevealuation to be relevant, and his Soundwave needs a little boost. That’s it. Ana needs similar. It’s just powercreep. Otherwise, they’re really balanced heros when compared to most of the cast, just not when compared to Mercy. No amount of buffing that will result in them being tempting, viable picks over Mercy Meta will be anything but overpowered in all other situations. That is why the solution is not to buff the other supports (or overbuff them) to be on Mercy’s level. Single target 30s rez as it exists, along side Mercy’s risk/reward ratio, is too good to pass up for anything but something that would be equally overpowered.
There is though. She can only healing one target at a time. This is outside her ultimate though.
We are talking about Healing Potential, as you need to include EVERYTHING, because if we are only talking about Primary then literally all need some form of LoS.
No I shift it to all healers for this particular statement because you were just comparing Zen to Mercy… it’s not pointless at all.
Again, I advice you to look up peel mate.
This is so not true…
This is the only thing true.
How exactly is it overkill when she had all of this before the re-work? It wasn’t an issue back then? Again as I stated, the only thing that need to be changed is make resurrect earnable, but with that being said you better believe that the great Mercy’s players will still surpass.
Ana and Mercy’s healing output haven’t changed since then, and Ana was the next best in terms of average heals per game at the time. I can’t post links, Blizzard trust level and all that.
You mean like Ana, who still has to deal with ammo and all the burdens that come with that?
Except mercy… who can attach her beam to somebody… then hide around the corner and still be healing them… That was the original point to begin with.
No i’m pretty sure I was the one who was comparing Mercy to other Main healers. You decided that because Zen is a must pick like Mercy in recent Meta’s that he should be nerfed just like her, even though his kit has balances built into it.
I’m pretty sure even before Mercy’s rework, she was best paired with widow and phara, both high damage dps that benefit immensely from her damage boost.
Her mobility got improved with extra momentum and an added mechanic, not to mention her kit got better with the addition of chain beams and res on cooldown.
There’s a reason they call it a rework.
I agree, though blizzard doesn’t. So the only other option is to tune down her other strengths to justify having a powerful ability like current res. Apparently that option is controversial.
True Ana has burdens related to ammo, but she can also heal from range while Mercy has a 15m range requirement. Often times I find it easier to swap to someone in the front lines and heal them with Ana compared to Mercy due to Mercy having to re-position herself to heal that teammate and potentially put herself in danger.
Mercy can attach her beam and hide around a corner, sure…but the beam won’t last forever, it de-attaches after a certain period of time, requiring you to poke out and re-attach it.
Yes mate, not saying that it is incredible strong, but it very useful. Anyone knows how great Orb Of Harmony is for many reasons.
You can still post links mate. Provided the link and I will re-post it for you since I am trust level 3.
In a way, except Ana can burst heal and can heal more than one target due to Biotic grenade,but yes like Ana though.
Except she still need to maintain that LoS if not then the healing beam will de-attach from the user. I get what you are saying, but to say that she doesn’t need LoS at all is quite absurd.
There we go putting word into my mouth yet again. I am not saying that Zen needs a nerf, neither does Mercy. My problem that I have with some people on these forums are the extreme double standards.
I comment to Hige because he made valid points, but point was made with double standards. You were the one who proceed to reply to my comment about Zenyatta and then try to switch to compare Mercy to only main healer to try and justified your point even further, but it does work like that as if we are going talk about healers, then we need to look at all of them. Which is why for that one statement that I made, I try to challenge you to think not only about main healers, but all healers. I notice that people keep saying Mercy overshadows ALL SUPPORTS, NOT JUST MAIN HEALERS, so why won’t we focus on all supports again?
That is true, but again it just depends on the situation… So I should have said you were partly correct.
We are not talking about her ultimate… Anyways, the extra momentum came from the added mechanics that can be preform with by other heroes as well.
Her kit is literally the same, except the fact that she has an E ability. Not to mention that Valkyrie even said that it enhances her abilities, so of course her normal kit will be better during that duration of her ultimate.
Despite your feelings towards her, and the feelings I have towards her… Blizzard already made an out statement saying that Mercy is balance. Which I agree, she is balance. The only changes I like to see is what I stated above which is make her resurrection earnable.
Sorry you found what is true cringe. Cringe or not, this statement is still true, as great Mercy players will resurrect every 30 seconds or even less. which means that they will be resurrecting the same or even more.The bad Mercy players will resurrect less.
Yes I would love these changes, but at the same time, people will still complain about her, because well you know for reasons.
Skillful Mercy will still be superior.
It still won't fix Ana issue. (Not entirely)
Good Mercy players will resurrection more.
So again, I am all for making resurrection earnable, as this can be a buff and a nerf.
Lowest healing ability in the game and discord make up for zen’s weakness. While Mercy gets the most reliable healing, the best ability, the best average healing and her weakness is she’s team dependent. And you think that comparison makes sense because they both have a high pick rate?
Line of sight relative to her position, sure, you’re right. Does she actively have to be looking at the targets she’s healing? No.
False equivalency. Zen has clear weakness and strengths. Mercy is useful to any type of team comp because she is strong in everything and her drawback is literally just the fundamentals of Overwatch, team work. Your double standard is not a double standard.
Are you in denial or something? “mercy is the same, except she has new abilities, an ability that makes everything better and increased momentum that affects everybody, but most notably Mercy as it was designed for her”. Paraphrasing btw.
You might want to reread what they said again.
Ana is perfectly viable this Meta, for once in 5 seasons you can switch Mercy for Ana just fine. Ana honestly doesn’t need to be touched at all. If they gave her anything, it would strictly be to either lower her skill floor or compensate for power creep which would only be more power creep.
So, you’re basically in favor of another rework for Mercy, putting her res back on an ult? I’m Curious, how would you balance Mercy
Actually it’s not the lowest healing ability in the game, but that is beyond the point.
Yes, you list out all of Mercy’s greatest aspect, but you never list out Zenyatta’s.
Best supportive ultimate in the game.
One of the best buff in the game.
Can heal allies/ flankers while contributing in damage.Meaning he can heal and damage at the same time.
Can dish out an average of 9k damage.
Can heal an average of almost 7K.
PC DATA ABOVE
PLAYSTATION DATA ABOVE
XBOX DATA ABOVE
Meanwhile, yes you are right. His weakness does indeed counter balance this, as to why I don’t think he need any changes my personal opinion though.
MERCY
Has the best supportive ability (average 6 resurrection)
Has one of the best mobility con to this though, it's dependent on your team's placements.
She can't heal and damage at the same time, but because of this she has the best consistent healing.
Her healing average is nearly 12k.
Her damage average at best is 500.
PC DATA ABOVE
PLAYSTATION DATA ABOVE
XBOX DATA ABOVE
Despite Mercy having the Best mobility as you keep stating, both Zenyatta and Mercy dies nearly the same as an average of 8 death per game.
Are we done comparing the two yet, or do you want to keep on going back and forth? Like I stated above and the individuals stated. They synergies well with each other. Where Mercy is lacking, Zen shines and vice versa.
Not to mention that Zenyatta can still heal at distance, compared to Mercy, but again that is beyond the point.
Are we going compare this to main healer or all healer? Just for clarification.
But to say the very least, I don’t know about other Mercy Players, but I like to maintain LoS with all my targets, sometime I will do a quick look around to scout out the battlefield, or I will heal then Guardian Angel to another target while having the beam still attached to the target I was just healing, but I quickly regain LoS ASAP. So I can’t speak for everyone on this aspect.
So does Mercy, she has clear strength and clear weakness. Mercy is useful to any team composition is quite false as she is not really useful in heavy tank composition. However, just like Genji and Tracer and any hero who has insane mobility, those heroes can quite have some room to make some errors due his or her mobility. Meaning that mobility can help hide some of the heroes weakness, compared to heroes who don’t have mobility.
Lol… are you talking about my definition of double standards? If so then I don’t get how my definition of double standards is wrong, when indeed people have unfair/ un-equivalent judgements - principles when it comes down to different groups and/or thing.
so please try again
I guess we can’t simply comprehend what was actually being said, you even quoted my statements and still end up not fully grasping upon what was being said.
Am I in denial? Not at all.
I literally just said that her kit outside of Valkyrie and her E ability are the same as before. Mercy1.0
I then proceed to move on saying that her ultimate, which is new, will of course enhance her ability. It even says this is the description. The only thing that changed in her kit was she was given an E ability. I am talking about her regular kit. Other than that, she plays the same…the only difference is that she will go in for a resurrection here and there, but other than that, she still plays the same.AGAIN I AM TALKING ABOUT HER REGULAR KIT, NOT HER ULTIMATE.
(So that way, you don’t get confused with that again.)
Don’t need to, I will post the link below. They stated that she is pretty balance, and she doesn’t need any changes. So what changed?
I appreciate your way of thinking, I honestly do. As yes, people can still make her work, but a lot of people have this way of thinking that she is still very weak. Which she still need some attention, but like you said, the only way she will be seen viable in the community’s eyes is by making her easier for the mass. Other than that, she will still be be inferior to not only Mercy, but to all healers.
Not at all as I made many suggestion.
I say keep her resurrection, but make it earnable via through healing and damage boosting.
OR
Embedded the ability to her ultimate and replace her E with a cleanse burst healing ability temporarily. Once she enter valkyrie, then she can preform resurrection.
She can now preform Mass Res, however, the enemies have to be with 10m and she will still have the cast time and movement reduction.
Those are my changes, other than that… She is perfectly fine.
Everything above this line is basically a giant flashy strawman. You made a false equivalency between Zen and Mercy based on the assumption that people have a double standard against Mercy over pick rate, cause Zen’s is similar. That is simply not true.
I actually encourage you to keep an eye out on your surrounding more. That situational awareness is invaluable and your healing target’s hp bar is plastered on your screen regardless of where you look as long as your beams attached. For real, Mercy is the only healer that can do this aside from Zen, and he’s more busy fragging out since his heals are, lacking to say the least.
Alright sure, if you call having to play with your team a weakness, you got me. Also Mercy not being able to do a lot of damage is really a moot point when she doesn’t have to actually fight her flankers.
Refer to the the first point.
You might want to go back through these and reread the original point. Also your smugness is really telling.
That’s not how any of this works. Most notably in higher elos and especially on PC.
Yeah we’re done here. Your idea of balancing an overtuned hero involves giving her two ults (earn this ability) or giving her another strong ability on top of res to compensate for not having res up every 30 seconds.
Trust me mate, I do. When I say I maintain LoS that means I like to keep them in my sight while be aware of my surroundings. A great way for this, is I take into account of the enemies footsteps etc.
you do know that Mercy’s has more weakness than just that… but I never said playing with your team is a weakness.
?
You can always re-quote them as well… you did it before, so why stop? But anyways, I did re-read what I posted, and I don’t see how you got confused as to what is being said… but you are welcome to re-elobrate and provide evidence if needed.
That is not how what works? Please elaborate.
LOL… I am glad that we missed the (OR) part.
Please elaborate why you feel as these are horrible idea. as I dot understand how she will have "two ultimate"as you stated.
It’s simply, you can move the ability to her ultimate, and replace E with another ability, temporarily until she enter Valkyrie.
OR (pay attention to the or)
You can simply keep everything the same, and just make resurrection earnable.
But I am glad we had this conversation, I finally understand how you think… and it is quite interesting to say the very least. But it is perfectly fine, some people rather complaining about something, rather than help fix the issue, by providing ways to help fix the current issue.
Cringe or not, this statement is still true, as great Mercy players will resurrect every 30 seconds or even less. which means that they will be resurrecting the same or even more.The bad Mercy players will resurrect less.
you do know that Mercy’s has more weakness than just that… but I never said playing with your team is a weakness.
and it is quite interesting to say the very least. But it is perfectly fine, some people rather complaining about something, rather than help fix the issue, by providing ways to help fix the current issue.