To be honest while no one wants to admit it, mercy 1.0 was and still is the most balanced incarnation for her. (not that I want to go back to it, I just find it funny)
she already has weaker heals than Ana
Again it’s going to the empty well of nerfing mercy while ignoring the issues Ana has. Mercy is balanced. She really is. Nerfing balanced heroes because other heroes are bad does not work. We have gone through this before. It doesn’t work. Nerfing dva didn’t make people play Zarya. Nerfing Zen didn’t make people lucio. This strategy doesn’t work. Fix the heroes that need fixing then reassess the situation.
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And up until double sniper meta everyone was saying the last round of nerfs was a success. But some how it’s not again. Look you will never convince me that more mercy nerfs and adjustments is the answer. Been there done that. We just fundamentally disagree on this.
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Hey I think we might agree on something. Mercy’s heals are consistent next to Ana, and Moira for that matter. This is because they go against the other two main healers design by being allowed to go through enemy barriers and don’t require line of sight to actively continue to heal.
Not sure why Mercy needs the special treatment to her heals though when she could just res that bastion after he dies. Or why Mercy would need average healing better than Moira who has to deal with the worst resource. Personally I think Moira who is basically nothing but a healer should have the highest healing average, but that’s just my opinion.
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Except it did!!! if Dva was still the way she was before, no amount of Hanzo could bring back Zarya! no amount of Brigitte could bring back Reinhardt! she would remain at the spotlight and the meta woudl shift around her, that is exactly what is happening with Mercy
I know Ana already has stronger heals but when you take in account that she has to reload and that she can miss her shots because they are projectile based you realize that Mercy has it way too easy
Moira for example has 80 hps on her primary, that’s quite a lot but she can run out of it and the range is nothing compared to Mercy’s, she has healing orb and coalescense and even with 3 methods of healing she can barely reach Mercy levels of healing, if you don’t see that as a problem then there is nothing else to discuss here
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Mercy’s healing is the weakest of the three mail healers compared to Moira/Ana as she takes this hit to be more consistent. She doesn’t require aiming yes, but she is designed this way. Its the whole consistency vs throughput trade off.
Well I’m happy to agree to disagree.
IT IS THE WEAKER ONE in raw numbers but PER GAME she has the highest, do you not think this is a problem?
I’m not saying that she should have the lowest because in all honesty she has very little damage going for her but I would believe that having a single method of healing should at least be tied with Moira who has 3
So is discord… except it has no cooldown.
Please tell me that you are not suggesting her damage boost to be on cooldown? because it that is the case, then Zenyatta orb of discord needs to be on cooldown as well. Which is ridiculous.
No I don’t see the problem with that at all, as her healing and damage boost was the same even before the rework… why is it a problem all of a sudden?
You got me right here as I assumed you was talking about resource meter, but even so this statement really only applies to Moria more so than Ana.
Guess we forgot about Moria’s orbs?
I guess you didn’t read my replied fully as I said let’s make it interesting and say all healers.
I think you need to look up the definition of peel buddy.
I love the sarcasm 
but it is simply, great teammates = great mobility and poor teammates= poor mobility.
I would easily trade this for her own type of mobility that doesn’t involve her teammates.
I never said I disagree, but I did say that mechanic was added to increase her skill ceiling…
Because she can’t defend for herself… The only healer who can’t heal herself is Ana… Also her self sustain only kicks in when she is not taking any source of damage.
I literally just said that mate. 
I never said he was simply the easiest support to kill, but I did say that it balance out since he has no mobility whats so ever. He has discord and high damage output, with the best ultimate support wise.
Mercy has high mobility and high healing, with one of the best ability support wise.
I love the fact that you tend to always put words into people mouth, but I guess we can only list what’s great about her, but ignores what bad about her.
Best Healing output = Poor Damage output
Best Self Sustain = Poor Offensive ability to defend herself.
Best Mobility = Being The Most Team Dependent, as her mobility comes from the placement of her team.
While Moira does lose in the utility department, I would classify her as a healer/dps hybrid. Honestly I believe the current meta disfavors her as her uniqueness is that she can defend herself while pumping out massive healing, where as the current meta you generally aren’t dove on, this part of Moira’s strength is irrelevant as you generally don’t need to defend yourself as a support in a 1v1 situation, not to mention the barriers preventing her from getting her healing back, not sure if she is balanced, but I honestly believe this is just a bad meta for her.
EDIT, Also with moira healing she can dish out isn’t as important as with brigitte,/zenyatta existing her superior healing isn’t necessary most of the time.
Her healing per second is fine though…
To be fair in he healing department valkeryie infaltes her healing numbers, where as Ana’s ultimate isn’t used for healing.
I do agree with this, her healing before her rework was pretty middle of the pack and that goes hand in hand with what I’ve been saying!
She has valk which increases her healing done, why would she still have the same healing value as before?
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No. The other supports do not need to be overpowered like Mercy to be balanced. Ana and Lucio both need small tweaks upward to help them, but this is not to balance them around Mercy; Mercy is in fact hiding the issue with Ana and Lucio, which is that they are overall most affected by general powercreep. They just need some dusting off.
Mercy needs to be brought down to the same level as the other supports. If you start buffing the underpowered to be on par with the overpowered (and the fact that you refer to Ana and Moira as ‘weaker’ than Mercy literally translates to Mercy being ‘overpowered’ at the moment), you begin down a very slippery slope.
This is a case of one nail sticking up out of a board above the others. That nail needs to be hammered down to be brought to their level. That is the simplest solution.
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I don’t agree. The last thing Mercy needs is for her single target healing to be even weaker than it already is, the other main healers output much higher numbers. It’s much easier to keep someone up through burst with Ana than it is with Mercy, as Mercy you are locked to 60 HPS. Not to mention her main job is to heal, meanwhile as Ana you can help your team get picks, on Mercy you rely on damage boosting players to get those kills.
Honestly, I think the biggest culprit is resurrect on cd, it needs to be reworked into an ultimate again, I think that would solve a lot of issues.
No. Moria and Brig already have this passive. I’m tired of stacking healing passives on supports which makes them harder to kill. This isn’t a problem because I’m a salty DPS player, but because I’m sick of the support metas where nothing dies.
She doesn’t need a passive, and she doesn’t need mobility. She’s fine. She just suffers in winrate because she’s a high-skill hero, just like McCree, and any buffs to those 2 could easily make them oppressive like they used to be.
Up in GM Ana’s winrate is inline with everyone elses, so it’s the lower tiers that are being ineffective with her.
She’s fine.
I have, and I get the same responces.
“Learn to counter” -everyone has, and Pharah’s winrate shot up despite Brig sitting at a 56% average winrate still.
“Play around her” -as if her 6 second, 7m stun stun doesn’t already punish you for contesting the point.
Brig needs to be toned down, yes, but Mercy is still too good for what little she brings to the table. As to how to nerf her, Idk. I can’t pinpoint the problem with her, as her kit is bones bare already.
Maybe make her more inline, to where she can’t heal through barriers, and her beam breaks after 1 second of LoS lost.
If that’s not her problem, either revert or raise the CD to 2/3 seconds for her passive self-heal to kick in, as if she gets away it’s easy for her to regen her health, which only Dive could really stop her from doing that. This contributes to this meta where nothing dies. Mercy is too good at healing herself.
I would prefer that we wait until Ana/Lucio are in a better spot until we judge Mercy. Also why does Mercy need to be nerfed to make room for Lucio, doesn’t Zenyatta take his spot as he is an off healer?
Mercy will NOT keep a bastion topped off under heavy pressure, the bastion will simply die because her healing is locked to 60 HPS and nothing more. Ana heals for 15 more HPS per shot, and has her nade ability available for burst healing, she stands a MUCH better chance of keeping the bastion alive.
What do you mean Mercy doesn’t need to worry about anything else? She has plenty to worry about, if shes damage boosting then she can’t be healing, its either one or the other. Sure she can fly over to a teammate that needs healing, but he has to be in line of sight for her to do that, as Ana you don’t necessarily have to res position yourself, you have RANGE on your healing, you can just look up to someone that needs it and snipe heal them, reducing the need to re-position yourself and putting yourself in danger.
Also skill-wise, Mercy and Ana are completely different. You are taking mechanical aim to mean everything, when it isn’t in this game. Ana requires aiming but she also has higher HPS as a result, her healing isn’t what’s holding her back, its self sustain.
Tell me, why exactly does mercy need both incredibly strong things if Zenyatta can only have one?
Wrong, so wrong. With the rework to Mercy came chain heals, which effectively put mercy’s healing 2-4k higher than every other healer in the game at the time until moira came out.
So you see then, Moira and Ana have some kind of catch to the way they heal. Mercy doesn’t. Why not? She already has Res on 30 second cooldown and Damage boost.
No, we didn’t forget. It’s just on a 10 second cooldown so isn’t immediately reliable. It also isn’t her primary way of healing.
No i read it, I just didn’t appreciate your attempt to move the goalposts so I brought the point back to the original topic. Off healer’s don’t give out the amount of healing necessary to sustain a team so including them in a discussion about main healers is, kind of pointless.
You mean the one that is to come to somebodies aid who’s in trouble, as a tank would peel for their healer. Seems right to me.
Why would mercy waste her time trying to do damage exactly? Her damage boost makes her ally strong enough to do the damage for her, and you both get extra ult charge for it.
Mercy has the best mobility in the game as long as she plays with her team. She can kite flankers all throughout chaotic team fights, and if she messes up, it’s only 1.5 seconds before she can recover it. That’s pretty great way to defend yourself and honestly it’s balanced for her character design. Adding the best self sustain on top of that is just overkill.
I agree, The meta is definitely against Moira. Her resource is nearly impossible to maintain with all the shields and Brigitte being meta on top of that gives everyone armor, something Moira isn’t great at dealing with alone. That and the fact triple support is in the meta means that healing is already too good, So the main healers utility becomes a deciding factor and like you said, Moira loses in the utility department.
I don’t have a problem with a character being weak to a certain team comp, that’s just good balancing.