Mercy is fun, fun is subjective

[Megadodo-11847]

The only issue I have is that she was fun to a whole lot of people and it’s no longer fun to play their favourite hero.

Other than that yeh fun is objective and if ppl were complaining over a new hero not being fun then I’d use the same argument as u right now. Good point tho

Fun is objective?

[IsTheMedia-1302]

I have repeated it multiple times. Correlating the 75% speed reduction to a slow, and how slows are a form of crowd control. Therefore people can connect the speed reduction to that of a slow.

Again I get your biases and am seeing that you cannot accept them. But if you cannot understand how people make that connection then I’m sorry but I think it’s time you moved on then.

[Megadodo-11847]

Except you don’t summon anyone tbh, you bring someone back to life. Big difference in the meaning of the words.

The thing is, removing yourself from the fight simply means that you don’t interact with the fight, you don’t take part in the fight, stuff like that.
It doesn’t mean that you’re not doing anything.

Make her summon whatever you want, if she does it by staying almost completely still for almost 2s with no way of doing ANYTHING, she’d still be removing herself from the fight because she would not take part in the fight.

Also, a battle tactic is a tactic you use during a fight. That doesn’t mean you can’t get out of the fight.
Retreating is a battle tactic. I don’t see why you would use that here.

It’s not a question of how you see what she’s doing or whatever.

When you press that button, you will be almost immobile for 1,75s and you, yourself, cannot do anything else until it’s done, you can’t heal, you can’t damage boost, you can’t GA, and you don’t take part in the fight because you are not influencing the fight in this moment.
YES you are doing something that will impact the fight LATER (if it’s a good rez) but while you’re rezzing you’re really not.

And I will use the words that thr devs themselves used :
They did not like Mercy hide n seek because the Mercys would REMOVE THEMSELVES from the fight, hide and wait for everyone to die so that they can then rez. They did not like the fact that they REMOVED themselves because that meant you couldn’t do what you’re supposed to - aka healing your team, which you still can’t while rezzing, hence my use of this word.

I see rez as potentially providing more benefit to my team than any other action I might otherwise perform in that period of time, and as such, it is a battle tactic that absolutely keeps me involved in the fight

[KrissiVector-1258]

He has already stated that his view of Y is Y, implying that you’re view of Y is X. When he made that statement he’s refusing to consider you’re point of view because of course he thinks your view is incorrect. I’m sorry man, but you can’t reason with somebody who genuinely believes they are right, even if they might possibly be the one that is Viewing X as Y.

[Carver-11965]

Hello operator I’d like to report a murder…

[MrPlsandTy-1163]

I dont think there is anything for me to add to this at b this time

Then don’t, because AngelRoar has been doing that really well in this discussion. Your posts has been burying her valid points – which you have done against other good posts in countless mega-threads about Mercy.

Except you don’t summon anyone tbh, you bring someone back to life. Big difference in the meaning of the words.

The thing is, removing yourself from the fight simply means that you don’t interact with the fight, you don’t take part in the fight, stuff like that.
It doesn’t mean that you’re not doing anything.

Make her summon whatever you want, if she does it by staying almost completely still for almost 2s with no way of doing ANYTHING, she’d still be removing herself from the fight because she would not take part in the fight.

Also, a battle tactic is a tactic you use during a fight. That doesn’t mean you can’t get out of the fight.
Retreating is a battle tactic. I don’t see why you would use that here.

It’s not a question of how you see what she’s doing or whatever.

When you press that button, you will be almost immobile for 1,75s and you, yourself, cannot do anything else until it’s done, you can’t heal, you can’t damage boost, you can’t GA, and you don’t take part in the fight because you are not influencing the fight in this moment.
YES you are doing something that will impact the fight LATER (if it’s a good rez) but while you’re rezzing you’re really not.

And I will use the words that thr devs themselves used :
They did not like Mercy hide n seek because the Mercys would REMOVE THEMSELVES from the fight, hide and wait for everyone to die so that they can then rez. They did not like the fact that they REMOVED themselves because that meant you couldn’t do what you’re supposed to - aka healing your team, which you still can’t while rezzing, hence my use of this word.

Taking oneself out of a fight for 1.5 seconds or more is harsh. When opposing an Ana, for example, the cast time for healing is .16s unscoped, .25s scoped – that’s at least 70 x 6 heals max, 70 x 3 or 4 if some shots don’t hit, which is the norm. Which is why Ana is the more active healer than Mercy if Ana can hit at least 50% of her shots during the time Mercy is resurrecting, and that healing output definitely keeps her team more active in a fight.

I support your idea of at the very least allowing Mercy to cancel Mercy’s resurrect if the resurrect it’s bad.

[Megadodo-11847]

He has already stated that his view of Y is Y, implying that you’re view of Y is X. When he made that statement he’s refusing to consider you’re point of view because of course he thinks your view is incorrect. I’m sorry man, but you can’t reason with somebody who genuinely believes they are right, even if they might possibly be the one that is Viewing X as Y.

If some one comes to me holding a screwdriver and says hey look at this cool hammer, id reply thats a screwdriver

If this individual then said this is a tool I hold in my hands just like a hammer, so its a hammer, id reply that it is a screwdriver

If this individual then told me, look, I am striking these nails with this tool, just like a hammer, so this is a hammer, id reply it’s a screwdriver

[AngelRoar-2857]

I see rez as potentially providing more benefit to my team than any other action I might otherwise perform in that period of time, and as such, it is a battle tactic that absolutely keeps me involved in the fight

See here’s the thing, when you rez you’re still involved in the fight you’re just removing yourself from the battle at hand.

It’s just like in real life you’re a general or whatever high grade in the Army and you’re in the battlefield and you decide to get out of there, go to your base and think of a plan or call back up or whatever you wanna do.

You are still involved in the fight, you are doing something for the fight, but you’re not doing anything that helps at that current moment, it will help later.
You’re not with your soldiers shooting the ennemy, you’re somewhere else trying to do something that will hopefully make them win thr battle later but for the time being you’re not there. Is it the best thing you can do ? Yeah maybe it is, but it’s another matter.

I’m also not saying that when you’re rezzing you’re not doing what will bring the most benefit to your team. I have never said anything like that.

I just don’t think we’re talking about the same thing here.
You think that when I say that she removes herself from the fight I mean that she’s just doing nothing while she could do more elsewhere and that it doesnt bring anything. That’s really not what I’m saying.

[ƗƘƘƗǾ-1847]

doesn’t change the state of the fight!

Except it does?

[MrPlsandTy-1163]

If some one comes to me holding a screwdriver and says hey look at this cool hammer, id reply thats a screwdriver

If this individual then said this is a tool I hold in my hands just like a hammer, so its a hammer, id reply that it is a screwdriver

If thus individual then told me, loom, I am striking these nails with this tool, just like a hammer, so this is a hammer, id reply it’s a screwdriver

What does organizing your toolboxes have to do with this discussion?

You are still involved in the fight, you are doing something for the fight, but you’re not doing anything that helps at that current moment, it will help later.
You’re not with your soldiers shooting the ennemy, you’re somewhere else trying to do something that will hopefully make them win thr battle later but for the time being you’re not there. Is it the best thing you can do ? Yeah maybe it is, but it’s another matter.

+1 thumbs up. You’re too kind in your comment to a certain big flightless bird in this forum.

[KrissiVector-1258]

But those are all false equivalencies my good man— you both have different opinions about the ability. And that is A-OK! There is no official statement from the developers saying that is ISN’T or IS a self CC. Either of you might be right! Or wrong! That’s the beauty of it :) However, there is no need for you to continuously drill this person about your own view. You’re doing it so negatively and so disrespectfully with all of those false equivalencies that you love to spill out. There’s really no need for that over something so unofficial.

[IsTheMedia-1302]

Also I have noted their opinion is also valid with what they used to back up the claim.

I’m not saying they are wrong just that their opinion is just as valid as the other.

[KrissiVector-1258]

Yes but you have a negative opinion about current Mercy— so in a certain forum posters eyes, you MUST be wrong. There is absolutely no mutual ground with this guy.

[Megadodo-11847]

But those are all false equivalencies my good man— you both have different opinions about the ability. And that is A-OK! There is no official statement from the developers saying that is ISN’T or IS a self CC. Either of you might be right! Or wrong! That’s the beauty of it :) However, there is no need for you to continuously drill this person about your own view. You’re doing it so negatively and so disrespectfully with all of those false equivalencies that you love to spill out. There’s really no need for that over something so unofficial.

I am unaware of any false equivalencies in any statements I have made in the course of this discussion

I have not made any disrespectful starements

[MrPlsandTy-1163]

I am unaware of any false equivalencies in any statements I have made in the course of this discussion

Your analogies are off the mark, dude.

Also, AngelRoar’s point stands –

You are still involved in the fight, you are doing something for the fight, but you’re not doing anything that helps at that current moment, it will help later.
You’re not with your soldiers shooting the ennemy, you’re somewhere else trying to do something that will hopefully make them win thr battle later but for the time being you’re not there. Is it the best thing you can do ? Yeah maybe it is, but it’s another matter.

I’m also not saying that when you’re rezzing you’re not doing what will bring the most benefit to your team. I have never said anything like that.

I just don’t think we’re talking about the same thing here.

I think resurrect should be cancel-able, so upvote on this post.

[IsTheMedia-1302]

I can see that. I see her as usable just not viable. I fell that if she was then we’d have an answer to GOATS already.

But I can say she’s not useless. She does provide utility which is showing to be more and more if a necessity in comps.

[KrissiVector-1258]

Oh but you absolutely have! Especially equating your opponents argument to that of a flat earthier. Absolutely a false equivalency. It’s okay if you don’t quite get that— I see you like to use this type of tactic quite a bit around here. You see, you’re comparing your opponents argument to an argument that most people would see highly irrational. (and Factually most people do see the flat earth thing irrational of course) but frankly, your opponents argument isn’t irrational.

[Megadodo-11847]

I am unaware of any false equivalencies in any statements I have made in the course of this discussion

Your analogies are off the mark, dude.

Also, AngelRoar’s point stands –

You are still involved in the fight, you are doing something for the fight, but you’re not doing anything that helps at that current moment, it will help later.
You’re not with your soldiers shooting the ennemy, you’re somewhere else trying to do something that will hopefully make them win thr battle later but for the time being you’re not there. Is it the best thing you can do ? Yeah maybe it is, but it’s another matter.

I’m also not saying that when you’re rezzing you’re not doing what will bring the most benefit to your team. I have never said anything like that.

I just don’t think we’re talking about the same thing here.

I think resurrect should be cancel-able, so upvote on this post.

I do not believe I am off the mark at all

[Megadodo-11847]

Oh but you absolutely have! Especially equating your opponents argument to that of a flat earthier. Absolutely a false equivalency. It’s okay if you don’t quite get that— I see you like to use this type of tactic quite a bit around here. You see, you’re comparing your opponents argument to an argument that most people would see highly irrational. (and Factually most people do see the flat earth thing irrational of course) but frankly, your opponents argument isn’t irrational.

I do not see any of my statements as being or containing false equivalency

[AngelRoar-2857]

I am unaware of any false equivalencies in any statements I have made in the course of this discussion

You said that if someone wants to see x as y you’d rather see x as x and y as y or something like that.
You said that if someone came to you with a screwdriver instead of a Hammer you would tell them that it’s a hammer.

You’re basically saying that you are right and they are wrong.

The thing is, as WildPants said (love the name btw) the dev never said it was a self CC but they never said it WASN’T a self CC.
This means that we have no official answer hence both can be right or wrong and the fact that you don’t allow any other argument than yours and try to make it look like the person arguing with you is dumb as a rock, or is a 3 year old, is not respectful.
It’s good that you have convictions or whatever
But trying to force them on others with the idea that you’re right and they’re wrong and even if they are willing to talk and explain their POV you’ll just shut them down and its both rude and not appropriate in a forum where the goal is to talk between people.

If you post here, it doesn’t mean that you have to change your mind and listen to everyone else
It just means that you are here to share your POV and learn about what other people think of the subject at hand.
At least that’s how I see it

And just to finish on that :

I do not see any of my statements as being or containing false equivalency

In all of your statements your are RIGHT and they are WRONG.
Except that in this CC discussion, there is no official answer so none of you is right and none of you is wrong