Please, just stop talking about Mass Rez. It’s gone, we get it, stop digging up the corpse of the ult to beat it with a stick. Silawatsi wanted a discussion on how to improve the experience for players still dissatisfied with the current Mercy without a revert.
If you want to discuss her old ult make a damn thread about it - it would be redundant, but at least it wouldn’t clutter this discussion.
She can bring back only one player at a time, and can’t dodge your attacks while doing it. Can be ignored safely at other times.
This isn’t something new Mercy introduced, I have been able to do that before they changed her. Therefore it isn’t something you can commend new Mercy for, it is something base Mercy can do.
Beam juggling and Priority is a base/core kit Mercy thing, which means OG Mercy had it too. Same with not dying, she had a worse GA then so it was even more skillful not dying then.
DB to bolster a teams ult economy and secure kills, still something OG Mercy could do.
And sure, it has always reduced the amount you needed to heal, but because of the changes to damage boosts, for certain heroes it is a less viable strategy because you would need to boost them before they use certain abilities and that isn’t always possible or reliable to do and the further down the ranks you go, damage boost becomes less reliable because people suck more.
I also Main Healer with Mercy almost every game and I always get the gold healing too and I pretty much always secure 30-50% depending on how good people are and how free I am to do other things. And even with those healing percentages, I can still get 6-12 resurrects. I was always able to get 30-50% before the healing nerfs anyway, it just meant I had more freedom to heal less because it took less time to reach max and do something else.
I get compliments too, from both OG Mercy to now. From tanks, from DPS, from other supports.
I can keep my tanks alive too, but it takes so long now that even if my tanks peel and aren’t taking damage, it takes a long time. It feels slow, clunky and out of place to heal someone so slow if they aren’t even taking damage.
I can enable DPS, but you can only enable someone so much when they miss as many shots as they hit.
All the things you enjoy about Mercy, always existed before where she is at now.
The things you enjoy don’t counter the my statements about Valkyrie or cover how even peeling for healing feels like it takes to long to get someone back in the fight, all they do is show that you like the core parts of Mercy that have always existed on her.
All of these benefits act as a bottleneck for her to manipulate her healing rate so that if she needs to save someone, she can’t do anything, she is stuck at one rate.
Then maybe that is a problem.
Depends on your rank.
At low ranks I can get away with really dumb rezzes that I shouldn’t because people are blind to certain things, but that isn’t all the time. My teams never coordinate with me, even if I ask for it so often I need to use my own player agency during the game but Mercy lacks abilities that gives her much power in her own right, much of her kit with certain adjustments, etc now cause her team to make use of her and not her bolstering her team.
No, I think her mobility is too good.
I think bunyhop needs a cooldown.
I think Valkyrie is a broken design that ruins her weaknesses.
Versatile and also about as strong as Lucio’s Amp it up when healing and only really about as strong as if Zen Discorded a target and a whole team focused them.
That doesn’t sound ult worthy at all. But she can’t have it any stronger because it removes the weaknesses, vulnerabilities and challenges that her base kit provides that her ultimate does not.
I love Mercy.
I have less hours and one less year of playtime probably.
I thought she was fun to play, and the rework ruined her for me.
Her ultimate is a player baby sitter and not something that lets a Mercy express skill in it’s usage, because any skill you try to express is undermined by the ultimate because you were doing that stuff on her base kit already and doing it in much harsher conditions.
I agree, but I think bunnyhop is too easily given because it is a great show of skill but you can also spam it off every GA, soooo.
E Rez is given every 30 seconds, it is powerful in dissuading pushes but much more useless in larger fights especially the lower down in rank you go because one person is often meaningless to change anything because they aren’t the best players.
Valkyrie has so many flaws.
Mass Rez wasn’t faultless either, but I much enjoyed the mine games and the tracking of the enemy and surviving felt more meaningful because I was rewarded with something of power in my own right. I was awarded with more than one team mate which is actually worth something in lower ranks.
I would rather save a life and keep momentum, then rez it and have that be another thing that bottle necks her power and have a team mate return that has now lost their place and understanding of the fight at hand because they had left that fight.
I can’t wait until Mercy 2.0 is dead, but more specifically Valk and E Rez.
Except it was better used not hiding. Stronger used not hiding.
People were abusing the SR system by hiding, it isn’t the same thing.
That could have been changed easily. But now her current GA is too easy.
And still lacks something because E Rez is still reactive and doesn’t add much to her gameplay.
Oh, look at that, she still is.
But she isn’t more complex, Valkyrie is just her base kit but easier. E Rez is still reactive, but is unearned.
I don’t think she is flat out bad, I think her design is poor and not fun because everything Valk can do, I was already doing without it.
Everything E Rez does, is less useful the lower in ranks you go.
Everything about Mercy now, about where she has fallen to is a place where if your team really sucks, Mercy doesn’t have any influence to do much more than maybe make them live a speck longer. If they suck, she won’t get damage boost numbers, if they suck they won’t come back from a rez and magically be useful, if they get healed they still don’t know how to take less damage and there is nothing the Mercy player can do to change that because her kit is stagnant and bottlenecked by ideas of consist and flat gameplay. She can’t compete with the other supports fun and impact levels because of this.
I like Mercy because I like to be able to fully commit to my support role and do less shooting, its what I like about them simple nature of the beams, that doesn’t mean where she is right now is good though.
And well, as you say:
You are in a high rank, people in high ranks know how to avoid more damage because of good game sense and positioning and know how to sit with their tanks.
You are in a high rank, people can aim and therefore damage boost is more useful.
You are in high ranks, people often die with their team and when people do take damage, they take pretty big hits and likely die and therefore the E Rez is more useful.
It’s almost as if having better players around makes Mercy’s kit more playable and bearable.
I don’t want Mercy reverted, I want her reworked because her kit is just underwhelming, boring, poorly designed, etc.
Your praises for her are praises for Mercy’s base kit and don’t deal with the actual complaints I gave for Mercy.
And that’s the tea 
The thing is I can forget about her mobility that is on the cooldown of a spectator camera, I can forget about her beams that need minimal effort to hold a lock, and I can forget her ability to utilize both these things to administer a swift revive. I just think the whole passive regen thing is insult to injury.
Mercy can get swiftly to position for rez, but once it’s in process, she can’t do any of those things, until it’s finished or she is stunned out of it.
Well, she used to have a worse passive regen.
But at the end of the day, all supports are supposed to have a way to heal up. Some have more difficult ways then others, but they get to control it and such and well, if you keep doing damage to Mercy, her passive doesn’t work soooooo??
Zen and Mercy have it nearly the same, it is just that Zen gets his through shielding.
Remove rez, and leave her without a replacement ability. Good change.
Actually, what incentivized that behaviour was the invulnerability given to resurrect. Before, if you attempted to resurrect your entire team, you would likely die before or very soon after, and thus invulnerability was given to alleviate this.
However, giving invulnerability guarantees its success and therefore promotes the hiding as you can guarantee a successful resurrect of your entire team, prior to this, it was inadvisable.
Single-target resurrect eliminated this, but it was way too strong as a cooldown. Adding a cast-time, promotes the behaviour of hiding or taking cover and also prevents Mercy from healing while casting it.
When given criticism about this, the developers stated that they now intend for it to be used behind cover, but then that just mitigates the change altogether while also encouraging a behaviour they did not like before but are fine with now.
And you wouldnt before either. And even if you did, thats just throwing the game.
For her to guarantee a succesful resurrect without being vulnerable to it being cancelled.
Right, since it would not swing anything in her teams favor, but using it in the middle of a fight isnt advisable either.
Which she also cannot do while casting resurrect.
Its mentioned in her rework video here
At the timestamp 1:35. Of course, you do not have to go and hide, but you also did not need to do this with the ultimate version of resurrect.
Right, but what I am saying is that I would prefer that ability be removed and power distributed elsewhere into her kit. It already has the longest cooldown in the game, coupled with a cast time and movement penalty while doing so.
In comparison, Baptiste’s Immortality field has a 20 seconds cooldown, prevents death in the first place which is objectively better than a resurrect, can affect all teammates including himself and the drone which enables it - while even more stationary than Mercy (being entirely immobile) - is immune to stuns and knockbacks, but still able to be hacked, and lacks a critical hitbox, yet has the same health as Mercy.
Resurrect may be balanced, but it forces the rest of her kit to be lackluster in order to adequately distribute power in that she effectively has 2 ultimates.
I find a lot of Mercy’s kit to be contradictory and having design flaws which I went over in a thread post i made.
If an ability like that can be balanced without compromising the rest of the character, its possible to iterate on that with a character like Mercy.
However, I do not feel like I should reiterate what I have posted and spent several hours writing again, but I addressed a lot of what you claim to be straw-man arguments in this thread here.
You might be interested in reading over this post I made:
It talks a lot about the same issues and problems you have with Mercy, I’m interested to see what you think and if you disagree with anything.
Actually, you’re totally lying because hiding for mass res was always a thing even before the invulnerability buff was given to her. It became more of a glaring issue after the fact.
Res on single target has never been the problem. At all. It’s the fact she had that, and everything else. She was out healing moira and competing with her in death ball comps. She was still the go to in her own respective comps because of damage boost which nobody else can compete with. She had the best survivability at the time with GA on 1.5 and passive healing. The problem with mercy was never one thing no matter how many times you try to scapegoat it.
This has literally never been stated anywhere. But feel free to provide a source if I’m wrong. I already gave you the developer notes from the rework stating otherwise.
That was literally the biggest problem with Mass Res that got trash tier players into high elo’s, because they would do exactly that. You can try and sugar coat it and downplay it as much as you want, that fact remains. That was Mercy’s most popular play style.
https://clips.twitch.tv/FunnyKathishTrianglePartyTime
I literally just explained why that would be absolutely useless. You’re not hiding the entire team fight to pop out at the end of it after everyones dead to res one person. You did it in the team fight, while the team fights going. You get the aid of your team to res important members of your team and flip the odds in your teams favor. Completely different from the strawman you’re still beating on.
Except it is.
Why would she need to damage boost, while she’s already doing something important. She doesn’t have to do everything at once, that was the problem with her in the first place.
You completely missed the point he was making. She stops doing everything. No healing, No damage boosting. During that team fight she’s not doing anything what so ever. Not just healing. She wasn’t even in the team fight to do anything.
Except it was encouraged by the way it was designed to do exactly that.
Then you would be killing a core part of the character all together. At that point you’re not even playing Mercy, which bags the question, why not just pick up a new main all together?
For being as strong as it is, it needs that counter play. And again, these things can be mitigated by working together with your team. In a team based fps, that’s not a bad thing.
It doesn’t. You’re downplaying just how impactful mobility and damage boost are. Damage boost alone has kept her relevant through every meta ever to some degree. Being able to allow team mates to break damage points is incredibly strong.
No, you didn’t, your entire argument for wanting a new redesign is the exact same.
Resurrect in its nature is an out-of-combat tool.
If you are healing someone and another person dies, if you leave the first person to go rez the other, you’ve abandoned a teammate.
This is nothing like Mass Res, in which you told your entire team to go die on point and purposefully stayed out of the fight, not healing at all. Even in your scenario, you were in the fight healing. And then you stopped healing, in the fight, and went to res somebody else, in the same fight. Not once were you just not in that fight.
Stopping healing during fight actually hurts a lot more, since you purposefully leave everyone else to die, except this time, you got nothing to make up for that. And yes, you do leave fight to rez, since you not participating in it in any way, until resurrect is over.
i’m just going to copy and paste this since you’re looking to argue for the sake for arguing. Again.
Yes, you can keep repeating same, it won’t work. Damage boost isn’t in control of Mercy, it’s up to teammate to make use of it, which usually fails.
And “coordinate with team” usually translates as “do everything you usually do, since you are out to get some kills/resurrect teammate”. Don’t need to say, how horrible it is - you literally tell you team “ok, see you later, try to survive without me” and fly to get some kill. Chances are you will return to dead team.
Except it literally does and no amount of denial will change that fact. You do know GM mercy’s heal less on average than even gold, right? Because breaking damage points is a lot more valuable in a game where people die to one shots anyway so healing really isn’t half as important as you make it out to be.
Which is why it’s still not going to work. I got no GM players in my games.
You can say all you want “In GM, it’s X”, but most of the game have nothing to do with GM.
It’s a 50/50 die roll. Essentially it comes down to an are you willing to die to bring that guy back decision. With old Rez it was a no brainer. If you don’t you live and if you do X players come back. That gets harder to justify with it being just one guy and you having to be an easy target for every enemy just to try. In a lot of cases you’re better off telling the guy to just walk back; it ain’t worth it.
Unless it’s your carry player, it ain’t worth it.
Do you… reread these things before you post?
“GM mercy’s heal less than average and damage boost more because damage boost is important”
“this doesn’t work”
Meanwhile it works for even the highest of elo’s. Just because you have bad team mates doesn’t mean you can’t correct your game play and make use of damage boost at the right times in order to support those same team mates.
Already tried, it’s not working. Teammates take too much damage to even bother to boost them in 99% of situations. Fights aren’t about killing fastest, they are about outliving opposition.
“They’re not hitting shots” It doesn’t matter, neither is the other team 'cause same elo with similar stats. Meanwhile the shots they do hit will count for more because you enabled them.
That’s not what healing should do ever in Overwatch. That is in fact broken, when people don’t die. That makes for a stale game.