TBH, I think DB is actually pretty enjoyable and having anyone in your beam during Valk have damage reduction would honestly likely be beyond awful to play into (of course it depends on how much the reduction is, but even 30% damage reduction on the entire team could very likely bring about Moth Meta 2). If anything, I’d like to see damage reduction as an ability (replacing rez when out of Valk), as would allow for strategic uses (do you use it to save an out of place ally or one that is going head first into trouble or to try and heal them back up).
1 Like
Geoff literally said when Ashe was introduced in a Blizzcon interview w a streamer that Mercy + Ashe was an intentionally strong combo and a “buff to Mercy”.
You really think they “Accidentally” made it so Ashe 1 shots with Mercy boost? lmao you’re complaining about something Geoff put into the game on purpose.
4 Likes
Accidentally? It’s simple mathematical equation and you think Blizzard did not calculate that one?
I mean look at those roadhog buffs, those were not accidental as well, right? What is the result? Streams of whiners plagued the forums for a week until experimental is out.
-> Intention != Result
1 Like
I’m Sorry But 60hps Wouldn’t Be OP when We Have Ana and Moira and Somewhat Baptiste. Her Healing In GM was For a while the third lowest. If You Nerf Her Utilty Buff Her Healing And Maybe her other utilty Rez
And Also With Highburst Character Like Snipers and McCree with Junkrat and Pharah ect. She Cant Outheal a thing Besides Moira and I think Brigitte.
My point is Geoff isn’t going to nerf Mercy’s damage boost that has been the same for 4 years and not a problem just bc she’s working too well with the hero he INTENTIONALLY added to work well with her. Ashe Mercy has been able to one shot for over a year but it’s just now a problem? Maybe because Ashe got like 7 consecutive buffs to her gun this year + we are in a shield-less Hog meta that will end as soon as Experimental goes live.
You realize Ashe was meta in OWL the past 2 months without Mercy…right? She’s a better version of other the hitscan even without a pocket.
Geoff also said this about damage boost to me a while ago:
Sounds to me like they’d buff it if anything. Nerfs seem kinda of out of the question when he literally said this.
1 Like
Who is talking about OWL?
People who complain here barely watch OWL to begin with. Do you think roadhog nerfs are due to OWL complaints?
Heck, most people here are barely gold.
I am because the Devs said last month they balance around masters, Gm, and OWL.
And the Devs don’t balance around them so why does that matter…?
Also grats for ignoring the entire rest of my post and nitpicking one sentence mentioning OWL
Oh you mean that roadhog nerfs are due to OWL complains?
No one in OWL is complaining about roadhog. Only this whiny forum.
No I mean the entire rest of my post that is not related to Hog or OWL
The lack of response is indicative of a lack of rebuttal
People on this forum be like “We want other DPS in the meta, so nerf Mercy” even though she’s the only support with much direct synergy to damage heroes. All the other supports work much better in tank centered teams.
Maybe instead of nerfing Mercy we address the actual problem, that being Ashe getting way too many buffs in a single patch (To the point where she sent the formerly meta McCree to the shadow realm) while barriers got nerfed multiple times. And to add salt to the wound they buffed Hog so he not only chunks squishy heroes harder than before but makes other tanks look like a joke too.
3 Likes
Exactly this ^^ You’d think with all the Mcree mains crying about their hero being worse than Ashe now people would make the connection
Your whole point was Geoff saying balance is done around OWL/GM
I showed you changes (and you confirmed) that were made and had NOTHING to do with OWL/GM whining.
Which means Geoff’s statement is wrong, and your statement is wrong.
Facts > Words.
One would think that when ashe first came out and the synenergy between mercy and ashe not immediately shooting them to meta status, that people would figure out that continuous buffs to ashe as damage dealer and removal of barriers is the reason mashe is a strong combo.
And not because damageboost is suddenly OP lmao. The synenergy was always there, but it only became stronger because ashe buffs, not because mercy got… 5hps buff rofl.
Brigitte from month ago making mercy useless says hello.
1 Like
No, it wasn’t. Go re-read:
None of that has anything to do with OWL. Try again, you’re getting closer.
1 Like
You wrote that. Not me.
Again, ignoring my entire two paragraphs I linked
Zzzz this is getting tiring
I’ll just take this as you have no rebuttal
Neither of them are problems. Both heroes are balanced.
Do you ever wonder why this has never been an issue for as long as Mercy has existed, or even for the past 2 years that we’ve had Ashe? What changed was we absolutely neutered shields, and yet some of you are still wondering why you’re suddenly getting shot at more.
Buff shield tanks to actually have usable shields.
- This helps directly limit sight lines on snipers so they don’t have as much free reign
- It helps closer range DPS be viable alternatives
- That then also means you’re a much more immediate to Mercy when she tries to Res, ultimately diminishing her value with your mere existence.
And don’t even get me started on the change in Road’s effectiveness when he doesn’t constantly have direct access to your front line.
Every single “problem hero” we have right now is fixed when we bring back shields, because they were literally balanced around the generally safe assumption that shields would usually be around to keep them in check. There is absolutely no reason to kill balanced heroes just because everyone else got too butchered to stop them.
2 Likes
The problem really don’t lies in there. But sure some changes are needed on the way the heroes can use those abilities(mercy amp could provide less than zen amplification). Because of this:
Affecting the target vs affecting the source. Have 2 main differences
1- target amplified means everybody including herself deals more damage on that target. But barriers and any source of damage mitigation negate that benefit all times, also debuff removers.
2- damage on source, means that source it’s target agnostic, so can deal increased damage in any target, barriers included, only removed if the source of that damage amplification dies or stop to provide.
The problem with overwatch, without barriers or lesser barriers it’s a balance with 4 pilar things.
1- Damage, the way that damage is made
2- Fire rate, ratio per sec
3- Ammo, the downtime of effectivelly doing damage
4- Abilities that complement that
On damage side, if you got too many damage in a single shot. Means that to balance you need slower firerates or less ammo or both.
If you got a lot of “mini” shots on that, means that you need balance the spread, fall-off, their individual damage or their numbers (shotguns mostly)
High damage in a single pellet = less ammo or/and less fire rate
High damage in multiple pellets = more spread, less damage per pellet, less ammo or/and less fire rate
Low damage in a single pellet = more ammo or/and more fire rate
Low damage in a multiple pellets = more spread, less damage per pellet, more ammo or/and more fire rate
It’s just math and mechanics. Some heroes have more burst shots than others even dealing the almost same damage per sec. The problem it’s how that damage it’s made, if you find the root of the problem you solve the issue. About DB the problem lays the way they can be done and what kind of downside they represents. From mercy we got 2 downsides(can’t attack, can’t heal) and 3 upsides(can move freely within range, can hide, barriers don’t make difference on the damage) , so the problem with mercy lays on the range, damage increase % or like some said (cooldowns), she has low risk and high reward doing that, reducing the reward means more balance. Take zen by stance, the got high risk and high rewards in his orb, he needs keep line of sight and also that target needs be exposed (without any kind barrier or damage mitigation). So 3 downsides(line of sight, don’t have barriers in the way, bad mobility) to 3 upsides (damage amplification from all sources on target, can heal somebody and can attack).
Mercy most of the time was picked because her less risk and good rewards, also because her mobility and rez. So overall she have more “safer play and good rewards” against zen who have “riskier play and high rewards”. On “pick” perspective, most of the time the choice would be done on “safer play”. Because of that barriers dominated too much time.
About ashe, her abilities are not that well balanced at all. Her dynamite it’s too strong to be a ability, like rez. So higher cooldowns could solve the issue or just reducing the damage done like 75 explosion and 50 burning. At least all heroes can survive the blast without receiving any additional damage. Her scopped shots are ok, maybe less firerate or less ammo or both can solve(like I said) or just increase her damage and make her shots fewer and slower like widow and hanzo.
So are we forgetting that Ashe got like 7 consecutive gun buffs that immediately skyrocketed her into the meta DPS position over already powercrept Mcree even before the shield nerfs?
No? Ok
2 Likes