đŸ„¶ Mei's nerf is not enough

Really now? Which part? The wall which is almost exclusively used in the presence of more than one enemy? The ice block which disregards all enemies no matter how many? The zoning ult which is more useful the more enemies she traps in it? Or the right-click icicle which is single-target only?

No, we’re talking about a heavy CC ability without cooldown that had counterplay by coordinated teamwork. That sounds finely balanced to me. If she has trouble only hitting one
well then
wall them off ;> But oh no, that might make her use of the CC skillful. The horror.

Not for nothing, but, don’t care and not part of this discussion, at least not directly. Keyword: directly. The discussion is that the problematic part of her kit wasn’t addressed in a satisfactory fashion. It needed removal, not tweaking. You say “but her emails damage!..”, but that’s not the part we’re addressing, directly.

What you probably mean, is, “Well she may not be playable after taking out the busted part of her kit”. To which I would reply, “she might be, but only if you kept her in that state and did nothing with the character”. Orisa (why do I keep almost spelling that with two “s”) got a nice revamp with the shield nerfs which kept her very playable. Meta, even. If your defense of Mei comes down to “she’s unplayable without a really busted CC on primary fire” you are either not imagining a rework of the character to make her playable (and perhaps even better than now), or you’re just relying on a busted ability like a crutch.

Also, I don’t think I need to quote everyone saying it, but Meta status doesn’t actually mean anything in terms of balance and gameplay. A busted ability on a non-meta hero still needs to be removed, just as much as a perfectly-balanced hero currently in meta does not need anything nerfed (despite perception they may need it due to currently being meta, poor Sym).

It doesn’t have to freeze, either. Being slowed makes you immensely vulnerable, both so that you can’t escape further slowing/freezing (except mobility cooldowns, but not everyone has them), and in the meantime it’s super easy to headshot you. Not just by Mei, but by everyone on her team. In gameplay terms, it’s the same as being Discorded. And if Zen could Discord everyone he got LOS on, at once, it’d be busted too.

Even if you do have a mobility cooldown - you have to be facing the right direction, have the ability ready to use, and it has to have enough range to get you out of danger, which includes enough range to stay out of her primary fire range after she tries to chase after you when you’re still slowed as an aftereffect (at least that was addressed on PTR). And during the initial slowing and your escape, you have to hope that none of the other five teammates of Mei capitalize on your slowness and just down you right then and there.

Many, in fact. Mei’s entire thing is preventing escape. Unless it’s a McCree that’s going to flash and FTH you, you have a decent chance at escaping most close encounters of the third kind. Or at least fighting back and either getting a kill yourself or weakening an enemy to force a trade.

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No. People always say ‘just wait for launch’ ‘just wait for comp data’ ‘just wait for the next meta’

It’s never too early to give feedback, especially when the PTR is designed for feedback.

low level player and wannabe game developer wants to argue


Not interested as you already perfectly demonstrated you have no idea about what u’re talking about, not to mention the absolute lack of reason and logic.

I don’t play her these days.

As I have stated in other places, removal of multifreeze doesn’t actually do much OUTSIDE of stopping the abuses.

they will remove it, and people will just keep complaining about her, since they will take the same bad fights, with the same bad positioning, and get the same results, but, you have put back in an abuse.

Doesn’t seem like a good idea to me.

Right, but the moment you ARE making arguments around her overall effectiveness, then the stats SHOULD come into play.

You are talking about effectiveness of her abilities, which directly impact things like win rates etc.

IF you WANT to make those arguments, then you have to show that her stats are anomalous.

IF you take her on in close range, without your escape cooldowns without a near enough by.

Like, there ARE situations where bad plays SHOULD be punished.

Mei is VERY good at punishing bad plays, and people make a lot of them, but, to then ask “we want to make bad plays and get away with them” isn’t the right answer right?

The WALL needs fixing, because non bad plays can go wrong with it, but the freezygun? not so much.

A lot of bad choices have to happen for you to end up on the wrong side of the freezygun. Those choices SHOULD have consequence. ESPECIALLY since that is how she has an impact.

I am NOT against a rework, hell, I run threads gathering stuff around the rework, but I am against the amount of bull around “freezygun has no counterplay” etc.

There is only so much stupid I am willing to take in one day.

I guess you are talking about yourself then.

Go enjoy.

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By the way, it’s 2020 now. Let’s leave the “bad positioning” argument back in 2019. It’s a fallacious argument against anything, because it only applies in retrospect to an action. It never applies in the moment or in planning moves against the enemy. If you live, you were perfectly fine. If you died, no matter how, you were suddenly and magically out of position because something happened to you. It’s circular reasoning that doesn’t explain anything and doesn’t help either.

Yes, and? This isn’t really a good defense of anything. Sure, people on the internet will complain about things. It’s the nature of it. What does that have to do with anything? “Well we could fix Brig 1.0, but people will just keep complaining about it
”. Suddenly doesn’t sound like a good defense, does it? By the way, people do still complain about her, and she’s still better balanced than she was.

Except I’m not. You might be, others might be, but I’m not. Her winrate, her meta status, her astrological signs, are all equally irrelevant to a busted ability that shouldn’t be in the game. How effective it is at
you didn’t specify actually, did you mean winning? You did kinda separate “effectiveness” from “win rates etc” with that comma so I’m not sure. What I’m talking about is an ability that destroys player agency without cooldown and it’s an absurdity within the framework of this game. Only Sombra came close so it, and look what they did to her. Now if you want to argue about Sombra, I agree she needs buffs. I’ll even go so far as to say that she’s much less oppressive to fight against than Mei. But they gutted Sombra for that hack ability and it’s not nearly as bad as Mei. Face it, by all rights and with precedent, it should be on the chopping block.

No, and this is just a different variation of the “bad positioning” thing all over again. I have a newsflash for you, Mei has legs. Furthermore, Mei has her own agency. That means she can make plays, move, flank, surprise you, push brazenly, and do all sorts of things that don’t require you to make a single bad move at all. I mean, look at what you just did. You infantilized her and made it sound like she can’t do anything at all without the enemy team obliging her.

Anyway, no, the only thing that has to happen to be on the wrong side of the freezygun is for Mei to decide to close that range. Most engagements in this game happen at mid to close range, and often within Mei’s sphere of influence. She doesn’t have to do anything extraordinary to get within attacking range of people.

If you’re against it, I can’t imagine why. When people say that certain heroes can’t get higher value than others, it’s because the effort/timing/teamwork needed to get something to work, ought to come with a bigger payoff. It’s why people say Widow is balanced. Having a hefty CC ability without cooldown that can slow or stun multiple people is bonkers. It’s barely balanced as an ult with all that entails. And if the completely lack of thought needed to manage that resource is any indication, it means it ought to be similarly worthless.

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Well, in not sure about that.

I don’t for instance jump next to Mei as Ashe, I have no reason to do so.

If I did, because of overtime, I would make sure that I didn’t use coachgun to get there, because I will NEED that cooldown to get her off me.

Basic stuff like this.

There is positioning in the Game, and you can screw it up.

Well given the complaints about Mei are not coming from a desire for her to be balanced - but they say they are, having a change which doesn’t fix their problem, nor makes the game more balanced can safely be thrown out.

Right but people complain about Sombra as well, but that doesn’t mean we should keep nerfing her.

We should identify problems, and make solutions to them. That is good.

If people are too embarassed to answer the question of “what were you doing when she multi froze you” maybe the problem isn’t multifreeze.

The wall IS a problem, and that should be fixed, but that is because we CAN identify situations where people did the right things and still got punished.

Multifreeze isn’t like that. Her freezygun in general isn’t like that.

We should fix her. But like we should FIX her rather than just do kneejerk changes.

Yes, and if she without mobility abilities manages to flank you, that is on you. IF she manages to flank you after you have burnt down cooldowns, then she SHOULD have the advantage.

Because I know that freezygun isn’t the issue,

But it is also short range, low damage, and takes a long time to freeze someone.

Her freezygun isn’t what makes her good.

ANY situation where freezygun could effect you, a lot of other heroes would have just killed you.

She is not even in live right now dude
 plus she was reverted MOSTLY back to how she was at the beginning, she may still be viable to certain situations but I honestly think she is more manageable now thanks to this up and coming nerf.

But she is very manageable to deal with even as she is, you simply keep your distance from her and you are golden.

Remember to think of Mei as a Reaper but with ice, she depends on close range for most of her magic, meaning if you can keep a distance (unless it’s a sniper mei) then you should be fine, but even a sniper mei is counterable, simply pull out widow and scope her dome.

If I can do it anyone can, it’s all about learning the counters.

Alright buddy let’s see some sr verification. Or let me do a security question.
Was mei op for 17 seasons?

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Because that change does nothing to multifreeze, the main reason why Mei is played.

This is a pretty dangerous thing to ask, because this would include heroes such as Lucio, Reinhardt and Orisa.

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Lucio breaks my logic. But he’s fun so nobody cares.
Rein earns his CC (ditto for Ana).
Orisa, arguably should have some of her CC weakened, and tanking improved.

Just to clarify here 
 so unless you really want them top tier
 they shouldn’t be top tier.

That’s
 a little bit of a weak position for change.

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Pretty much it’s based on how fair it feels, versus how strong the ability is.

High risk, high skill or low impact get a pass.

While it is a game and fun should be a consideration, do you really feel there should be characters and choices that are just NEVER able to compete at top tiers?

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EXACTLY THIS. Either get rid of CC on her primary, or the pierce. The CC for free was already silly, but with pierce it’s just stupid.

You can stall with cryo, but put a FREAKING HEALTHBAR on it. She’s stalling the point for hours and I can’t do anything but wait for her to come out only to get walled off or have ult dropped on the floor (cause cryo is self-heal and self-heal charges ult too). Why can’t I break her out of her Tootsie Pop with my hammer? Bap’s immortality field has a healthbar, but cryo is okay being untouchable?

Same with her. Put a healthbar on Snowball so you can shoot it down. Right now the only real counter to Blizzard is Zen’s ult. Immortality and Lucio’s shield will get melted in seconds and with Mei being able to throw the little bot like a pro football player in any direction there’s almost no chance for D.Va or Sigma to “eat” it before it activates. Let’s not forget the freze lasts even AFTER Snowball is finished. People complained about Sigma’s slow afer ult, but Mei is feee to run around the ice sculpture museum. Junkrat’s tire has a healthbar and he’s not free to run around throwing mines when the ult is out. D.Va’s nuke doesn’t have a healthbar, but every shield counters it just fine.

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That’s because 6 seconds of invisibility was buffed into infinite. If Mie can bodyblock chokes for unlimited sure why not

I think Mei should be decent in very high tier play, just not the best.

Those are your opinions and you are welcome to them. I disagree though. I feel every character should have the capability to be the best. Though I will admit the more characters we have the harder that gets to make possible.

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They need to nerf the wall, shes a dps and has a better shield than sigma and orisa with only 5 sec cooldown