Why not?
Why canât a utility DPS be meta? Why was Sym nerfed into the ground? Why Sombra?
The question is, do we care about Balance?
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Because thatâs a qualitative âWhat should be the dominant playstyle of the gameâ, and I donât think CC should be that.
It should be strong. No doubt Roadhog is still quite viable. Heâs high tier. But not toptier. Like A- or B+ range.
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I cant help but feel your irrational saltyness comes from being a plat mei playerâŠ
I said mei is a terribly designed hero, and she really is. She is the slow death nobody wants in an FPS and the fact that the hero is top tier despite being so oppressive is borderline insane.
I would like to keep her utility, buff some other aspects or rework her, but as she is right now, all sheâs doing it taking away peoples counterplays.
You had no argument about my examples where players constantly get isolated and rekt because of this stupid hero, because thatâs reality.
So the utility heroes need to be second class citizens, unlike the first class damage DPS?
So the question is WHY? I think that ignoring balance because you donât like a hero is bad design.
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Iâd say hog is more around C tier tbh.
I donât like how mei is on live but on PTR I canât really gauge the impact till I get proper games on this patch - wait till this thing goes live, any other conclusion drawn before that is just stupid. Wait and see how it turns out, pitchfork down boi.
I am a person who worked in the game industry, and built matchmakers, and these days I do data science.
I am an Ashe main.
My issue is an âirrational saltynessâ it is that I think that âirrational saltynessâ shouldnât balance the game.
We balance off win rates, and game stats, not âOMG NO COUNTERPLAYâ since, if there was no counterplay, that would show up in the stats.
Getting isolated and frozen is ANNOYING, but, you have more work to do to show it being over powered.
Annoying ISNâT the same, and the fixes are different.
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I think making people temporarily not play the game, shouldnât be the primary way to win.
Shooting stuff should be the primary way to win.
Otherwise, you get videos like this.
And you got that Tecent/Riot game coming out that wants to steal Blizzardâs lunch money.
Mei = OP
Widow = Skill
Me = SMHâŠ
Iâm sure you are, never heard of your, nor your company, nor any of your games.
The fact that you donât think mei is a poorly designed character in a fast past heroshooter speaks volumes of your competence as a game designer.
So please, spare us that.
We do not balance off winrates and game stats. That would be absolutely dumb because winrates are different across the bracket.
Like Quake champions, Lawbreakers etc?
Notice how all the games like overwatch which PUSHES for DPS play end up failing, and how that games like Paladins do really well?
PLENTY of people have made the same choices, and they all failed.
Go back through my posts, I have posted about matchmakers with source code showing how they work - how you tweak them, and what the tradeoffs are.
No because many tests are around YT showing the difference is not a lot. The issue is multi freeze that is still busted so she wonât be out of the meta anytime soon.
Not particularly - In a game with many different heroes, and some roles being more restricted in terms of options vs any given thing, there can be no counterplay for say the tank category, because mei just dogs them - that doesnât show up in the winrate/stats because their ability to shut a player out isnât reflective of their overall effectiveness, and in terms of fairness the game does have some issue of a lack of counterplay and in order to maintain a games good âFeelâ to it you would definitely re tweak them.
Now as I said before Iâm not on the side of wanting a second nerf as I think these changes are a good step in the right directions, and I canât judge the power of them until the patch goes through and I get some GM games in the pocket to actually draw a conclusion since every ptr match is few and far between atm and itâs never with equal skilled players.
But yeah - a lack of counterplay doesnât exist just in stats, a game has to do more than just make sense, you could create a much less complex game with two people with pistols on 100% mirrored maps - that game would feel bad, just like it would also feel bad if say one entire role was locked out of play with a lack of counterplay and the one who makes that happen isnât very good at much else in terms of duelling, would still not show up in the stats because her overall win condition is relatively balanced but it does it in the cruddiest way possible - games have to âFeelâ good, otherwise they are soulless and missing the point of playing a game.
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Because humans have more emotional difficulty dealing with the feelings of a lack of agency in a game and unfairness, then they do with momentary pain.
Iâd look it up the quote, but with a âgameâ if you canât make any play decisions, but the interaction isnât completed, it feels really bad.
(This is by Leagueâs main balance guy)
http://archive.gamedev.net/archive/reference/design/features/balance/
I wonât search for some post in a 136 thread topic.
Also a basic matchmaker vs gamedesign is like saying âhey i can swap a motherboard, now I know how a CPU works on electrical levelâ. It makes 0 sense.
You clearly showcase you have no idea about gamedesign. And the reason paladins is as successfu l as it is, is because of its design not having absurd CC mechanics like mei or pre nerf brig.
That is a different issue though, that isnât a hero being OP, that is a hero being annoying and a problem.
I never said she didnât need changes, but, posts likeâŠ
just isnât right.
I agree with that, but, then the problem isnât OPness NOR is it âlack of counterplayâ
and this is what the argument is currently about.
Or maybe it is.
dBDonkeyFist is trying to make the argument that she is OP, is too strong etc, that she has not counterplay etcâŠ
This isnât right.
This is someone upset at feelings of lack of agency - AND THAT IS OK, but, that isnât what they are arguing.
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Well, like I said earlier I donât think Mei should be toptier. If anything, merely to protect her from some hamfisted sledgehammer nerfs that drop her down to F tier.
People dislike CC heroes, and will complain loud enough to make sure they arenât toptier.
(Just look at all the abuse Brig got).
Also, if Hanzo ever properly gets nerfed, that should reduce Mei pickrate.
Main reason sheâs being played is that sheâs the only decent ranged hero that has 250hp.
And thatâs because Hanzo can launch one normal arrow, and one storm arrow in a third of a second. And drop a 200hp hero down to 5hp.
Which is laughably easy cleanup for another storm arrow, or Orisa/Sigma/Bap/Zen spam.
Right, but Overwatch IS more successful, and it has ALWAYS had the CC in it. Paladins has more CC in it than lawbreakers, or Quake Champions.
Matchmakers cut to the heart of games like this, donât think otherwise. Hero design as well, which I was also involved in.
You clearly showcase you have no idea about game design AND basic stats, or logic.
You move the goalposts like it is an Olympic sport, fail to even understand what proof you try to bring, and then take up throw around Ad hominems when everything else fails.
Worse yet, you learnt nothing about how to stop having the problems you do vs Mei, and will continue to be trash.
At the very least, you should learn not to fight on the point, until you have to.
And for the love of god, try to learn the difference between an ability which is annoying vs one which is actually strong.
Well itâs always nice to see thickheaded deluded people living in their own little world.
Hell even saying something like âmatchmakers cut to the heart of gamesâ is showcasing your absolute disconnect to reality. Itâs already pretty clear, that overwatch is actually by far most enjoyable casually. The non ranked modes already demonstrate this perfectly.
I donât know why a low level player wants to argue with a significantly better player on how the game is being played. Again, ridiculous.
I think you are making some pretty bad assumptions 
You do seem to want to argue though, so who am I to say otherwise.
I mean, we got trashed in contenders trials, but we DID get there.