🥶 Mei's nerf is not enough

For what GOATS? with her 42% win rate in OWL?

Triple nerfed before 2-2-2 came out, which made GOATS impossible.

Sombra was NEVER the issue.

Characters like Mei, have been power creeping monsters for a long time, and people are only now realizing it because of 2-2-2.

They are stronger picks now because of 2-2-2.

Sombra was the complete opposite, she’s a worse pick now then she was without 2-2-2.

She was oppressive. EMP was undoubtedly predictable, but hard to react to with a defensive support ultimate, where only one of them actually countered EMP, but the support that counters EMP is the easiest target in the game for Sombra.

There needed to be more counterplay to EMP.

EMP has been nerfed multiple times.

Mei hasn’t been nerfed in years.

Don’t try to even compare EMP to Freeze.

That’s one fight you will lose.

Unlike Freeze, EMP does NOT in fact stop you from playing the game.

It stops you from using crutch skills to win on power creeping heros like Doomfist.

People like to call this game a Moba, it is not. It is an FPS.

What Mei does to you, is prevent MOBA & FPS gameplay all together. EMP does not do this. EMP prevents MOBA gameplay but you can still FPS if you choose to.

People are just choosing not to.

Yes, she has been buffed numerous times over the years that just now the community has realized her true power.

remember how long it took for the community to find out how well roadhog pairs with orisa?

EMP was a win button if teamwork existed, due to low counterplay options, so not in lower brackets.

38% to maybe %40 fight win rate with EMP in OWL Before the nerf.

Now you want to see what the win rate is of Snowblossom, GravDragon? Or NanoBlade?

Irony is, Not one single meta was ever formed around EMP.

Winrate doesn’t matter if theres low options for counterplay. It also doesn’t matter if she’s picked only for a fraction of a match to get through enemy defenses. Judging only by statistics leads to stupid decisions and statements like this one:

Never said there was. Nor I ever said she was meta.

That is the thing though, 60% of the time EMP did nothing at OWL level of play.

So your argument goes up in smoke.

You cannot argue statistics. Of course people can ignore them, which is why Sombra got nerfed. It was nothing but a QQ nerf.

There was never any justification for it.

Unlike Mei/Doomfist, and a few others.

However, Personally as a Sombra main, I never felt DF needed a nerf. But it’s not like anyone listens to Sombra mains anyways.

That isn’t what my implication was.

The point I’m making, is people call EMP Overpowered, but yet in 20 seasons of COMP. Not one meta was ever formed with EMP as the basis of it.

You can’t say EMP is broken, when it has the worst statistical data in the game of all the Ultimates at EVERY level of gameplay.

And Blizzard is full of crap regarding that statement.

Statistics don’t lie. People do. It is also a known fact Blizzard never wanted Sombra in the game. Everyone at Blizzard hates Sombra.

So she’s oppressed by the devs more than any character in the game, with close exception to Mercy.

The difference is Mercy is still played at every level of game play. Sombra is not.

I’m not saying it is, I’m saying it was.

It had almost no counter play and the only actual counter had it very hard to actually counter it. That is not good game design.

By your logic, I could argue that Moth Mercy was balanced because she had 50% winrate. Except she wasn’t, because winrate is not all that matters.

Small nerfs are much better than guttering a hero.
We should wait until live to fully assess the situation.
From my ptr experience, regardless of it if was enough or not… the nerf hits a lot harder than what the text may seem.

Sooo when do they dumpster Widowmaker, Genji, Tracer, Hanzo?

They won’t. That will never happen.

They will nerf Sombra 1 time for each example I give, before they nerf their OWL bread and butter characters.

Genji and Tracer (somewhat) are trash now unless the hero that this topic is about and Hanzo get nerfed, along with Reaper.

Widowmaker needs a whole new topic of her own.

A GM’s best advice against countering Widowmaker, “A better widowmaker”

Great counter play design there.

Did GM’s ever consider Sombra as a Widowmaker counter?

Because I literally didn’t say:

Not saying you, but most GM’s say the only counter to a good widow is a better widow.

By your logic, that’s poor game design.

When does Widowmaker get dumpstered like Sombra?

She won’t. Biased development is why.

I am not arguing the merits of skill needed to be a good widow, but skill and statistics don’t matter, remember?

If there’s no counter play it is poor design.

Your words not mine.

My understanding is that it wasn’t due to the ability to get out in front of a teammate to “protect” them, which is just good teamwork and a believable interaction with a chemical spray weapon, but because the freeze mechanic could be cheesed by two teammates constantly swapping places so that neither of them would ever get frozen. That’s where we leave “good teamwork and counterplay” and get into “cheesing a character’s mechanics, making her useless by utilizing a gamey tactic.” I also assume that’s what was meant by disallowing her to do damage because of having two opponents. It doesn’t stop her from doing any damage at all, but keeps her from doing relevant damage, which is just as bad.

No one complained for a long time, suddenly “nerf Mei!!!” threads all over the forum. Maybe some other balance issues casued this? Maybe there are no heroes to counter her?
And not to mention this “Mei is cancer” mentality cause DPS players to avoid her? Not even try to hit her just run away and find some other emey to fight with, that mentality is a hugel problem.
As a tank it’s not pleasant, but maybe the shield nerf casued this problem? Orisa coud chalannge Mei, but with her weak a*ss shield she coudn’t even fuction as a tank. And no toher tank design is made to have some utility agains Mei. The problem is not Mei, the problem is lack of tanks and supports who could counter her.

Don’t think so. I play in Gold and get a lot of results with Mei. I also face very good (for Gold I mean) enemy Mei’s. In Gold it’s not rare to see a team push. When you have this, you can destroy multiple people with Mei since it’s a team fight and people often don’t focus 1 hero at team fights.

That’s a fact. I never understood why people hated so much Sombra’s hack ability and not Mei’s Freeze.

You are wrong here. We had threads and people complaining. I my self complain about Mei since even before 2x2x2. But she was not Meta (which does NOT mean she wasn’t good or op). She has been buffed before GOATS ended and people just didn’t realize how good she was. I remember a couple people playing her in GM, like Kephrii and absolute wrecking the enemy team with wall plays and freeze. Now that she is meta people think we started to complain only now and that’s a proof that the community has short memory.

Wall is meta. She has her utility which makes her sought after bc she can create space after tanks have been reworked to body block more than barrier block, but she’s not at all as strong as everyone whines about. She’s just a viable character. She was viable all the way back from the soldier/dva/rein/Ana/lucio meta patch, and then she fell off in the following 1-2 patches after that of even being in a healthy pickrate/winrate all the way until goats died.

Before that people were making the same complaints (when she was viable but not meta) “she feels like an offtank blah blah blah”, and then for two years of her being f tier, if anyone said that they would’ve been laughed at. This is what healthy meI looks like. Deal with. The devs already said she’s middle pickrate even in gm. She’s not meta, she’s just viable.

It’s different. A good mei can absolutely carry a game, and is frustrating to play against, but not nearly the same kind of frustrating or carry that a burst damage hero can carry when they’re viable.

I’ve played masters games of widows, hanzos, doomfists, meis carrying the game, and I’ll say I see mei solo carry the least out of any of those “meta” heroes, and I’ll pick a game against a good mei over those other heroes any day of the week

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It’s because people are meta slaves and think everything should be defined by the meta pros play. She was super viable before and was never f-tier. People just didn’t pick her and used her strength with the full potential. Wall was always there and was never modified for a long period. That already says that is the players that didn’t know how to use her properly.

No. That’s far from healthy. Mei being viable is equal her being oppressive. She will always be oppressive with wall + slow and stun on primary. And like I said, pick rate doesn’t define the power of a hero.

You even said Wall is meta :man_facepalming:. She is meta whether you like it or not.

That’s a opinion. I find it a lot more frustrating (by a huge margin) to play against Mei over playing against burst damage. Doomfist, Widow, Hanzo… they all have burst, but at least they don’t rob you from the chance of doing anything even MOVING!!

Again, opinions. I would pick a fight against Widow, Doomfists and Hanzos over Mei any day of the week.