Mass Res Will Return | 10 Reasons Why


#680

RevertMercy, you should stop writing like a broken record with the same 2, 3 sentences.
You are grasping for straws with the “they reverted her healing output and ult voiceline” so desperately it’s not even funny anymore.
Also you keep claiming mercy was balanced back then, when in reality she was seen as a troll pick. In what way reverting her, then nerfing rez with LoS and cast time will make her balanced?
You REFUSE to answer this questions, instead you just repeat the same thing over and over. And don’t say i’m attacking you as a person. I’m attacking your argument (or lack thereof).

Seriously, tell me in what way she’d be balanced with a revert and a nerfed mass rez.
Tell me, prove me contrary. Don’t just say “i disagree”, then repeat the same thing over and over.

PS: my two cents on the signature. It does feel condescending, like they are holding the utmost truth and every other opinion is wrong. It doesn’t inspire discussion, it inspires “i’m right, your wrong xoxo”. Doesn’t help that they constantly repeat the same thing without actually putting up an argument.
If she was true, fair and fun, they gotta tell me why.


#682

Most arguments I’ve seen haven’t been about balance. I’ve seen “I’d rather her be fun and garbage than balanced and boring” which, honestly, I completely agree with.

I don’t even main Mercy but she just drags games down when you play against her now. It’s tedious.


#683

They’ve actually reverted a lot more than just that. Her Ult used to activate at the end of the voice line in the beta, and they reverted that change very quickly. As well as Changes to Sombra, Ana, and Lucio. (Stealth Detection, Grenade, and Wallride.)

Personally, I feel like making her underpowered and then boosting her up to being balanced would be much better and healthier for the game than making her super op. For Example: Valkyrie. XP

Also, tons of people say that old Mass Rez was Overpowered, so adding the Nerfs to her will show them ”Oh yeah, she is underpowered, let’s go ahead and buff her.”


#684

well, yeah, i too would rather having a fun, but low tier character.
But the way people talk make it look like reverting is gonna make her balanced somehow and undo all the toxicity. Again “true fair and fun balance”.

I was talking about mercy specifically. And still, one thing are number reverts, one thing are KIT reverts. None has happened so far.
Mercy wasn’t just tweaked, she was reworked.

For mass rez, to me the problem wasn’t balance, but design itself. It just made mercy depend on it in terms of worth. In higher level mercy was worth something only if she had rez up otherwise any other healer was better. And since it was an ult and was made slower and slower to charge for balancing reasons, she became less and less playable.
Doesn’t help that she was against 150hps ana (nade used to double heals instead of just +50%) and 30m aura lucio, so it was hard to justify her picking.
But if we reverted her we’d jump in the same problem. She’d just be dependent on her ult. And that’s not something that can be fixed with numbers and tweaks, it’s a problem with the core design.
And the rework came because she was perceived as grossly underpowered and was an attempt to make her less ult dependant. Which worked a bit TOO well.
But now i’m not arguing about the rework, i’m arguing about why mass rez was bad outside of balance and fun


#685

What are these bad aspects of mass Res? I’m asking so I can perhaps persuade you otherwise.


#686

You’ve made this post before. You seem to want to argue for the sake of arguing, from how you are addressing me and others, so rather then entertain you, this will be the last time I respond to you directly. I’ll give you the cliff notes version:

-Mercy was reverted multiple times before
-This proves that “A revert will never happen” is in fact a myth and fake news at this point.
-Valkyrie has been more unbalanced, broken, and harder to balance than Mass Rez. Partly due to rez being on E, and partly due to the need to nerf her constantly just to break even with the hero.
-A lot of people think she is fine, and a lot of people think she is not fine. Currently, a lot of people know that she is in a bad state and needs something to fix her current state.
-I believe the solution is a revert. Other people believe the solution is a rework. Others still, believe that solution is a few minor tweaks.
-No matter what you or I believe should be done, there isn’t a right or wrong. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and one is not more important to another.

Any other questions you have regarding Mass rez, and Mercy’s current state, I will suggest you look at the following threads, as there are people who can explain it to you in ways that I cannot:

Outside of that, I will no longer respond to you on the issue, as I’ve proven to you multiple times before, and as such, the attacking me with your projected feelings, the needing to be convinced after I have stated we’ll have to agree to disagree, etc. Is becoming redundant and non-constructive. If it helps you, I would suggest that you bookmark this post, or print this post and put it on a wall or save it somewhere where you can reference it later. Further, just in case you will need to be reminded of what I’ve said in the future, I will be linking you back here as well - In case you require more explanation.

I would rather not re-explain to you again things you already know. Instead, the only word of advice I would have for you at this point is to just do your research, look at past Mercy megathreads (which literally answer every question you would have), settle your differences with people who have different opinions than your own, and move on. I understand that you don’t want Mass res to return and I respect that, I think mass res should return. We will simply have to agree to disagree on it and leave it at that.

Also side note: for the record… Saying

And then following it with

Is an attack on me as a person. You are projecting you feelings on how you think I am, without actually knowing me. So of course, I will have to disregard your first statement and ask that we try and be civil within this thread. This is a thread about Mercy’s current state, not what other people’s signatures mean to them personally. Let’s keep it classy :slight_smile:

Hope this helps and I wish you well on your endeavors. Take care now! :blush:


~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance.
xavvypls
:blue_heart:


#687

I think last Valkyrie nerf was too heavy. Why don’t they give her instant res, increased healing and 30 hp/s self regen for example. Remember that words in patch notes when rework?
“Valkyrie unleashes the full power of Mercy’s Valkyrie suit”
This is NOT the full power. This allows us to fly like a fat fly and slowly res. While ressing 1 teammate the remaining team will probably die. And YES this FULL POWER of suit allows us to… pew pew pew here I am battle Mercree harassing ur widow. That’s all.
Are u kidding me devs?


#688

i said it does feel condescending to me, regardless of your intentions. I don’t know you, i can only make assumption based on how you write.

Also, you failed to actually read what i wrote and repeated the same things once more. Reverting numbers and voiceline isn’t the same as kit reverts. You delude yourself if you think it’s the same thing. This is a fact, not an opinion.
Thinking revert is good is an opinion. Saying she was reverted is not. And don’t pull dictionary definitions, i’m talking about kit reverts. At no point they backed down from Rez on E and Valk as an ult nor they ever gav the impression of wanting to do that.

I explained why i think revert would be bad for her but you didn’t even try to argue with me. You just started assuming i was here to stir up drama, while talking with a condescending tone.
And yes, all that “wish you luck with your endeavors” after telling me to print your post and pin it to the wall IS being condescending.

You are just answering with the same list no matter what other say. How is that “progressing” the conversation?
I want to progress. I want to hear why people think mass rez is good.
But i only hear the same thing i heard on the initial post and no effort to even try to understand where i come from.
That is condescending. You keep talking about “every opinion is equal”, but at the same time you just go and ignore any argument, as if they’re beneath you.
Now i don’t know if this is your intention, but this is how you are coming off for me.

If you insist on repeating the same things while acting like this, then i’ll know i fell on deaf ears and me talking was a waste of time.


#689

Whatever the case, something definitely needs to be done. Whether that is a revert, a rework, or tweaks, I think we can agree that whatever it is, Mercy’s current state is starting to be a problem.

When you see youtube videos of people of all different ranks, who were avidly against Mercy at first, now saying “Something needs to be done to make her viable”, you know there’s a problem.

Also I love this analogy:

#Truth :blush:


~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance.
xavvypls
:blue_heart:


#690

Basically important post that Overwatch team should read carefully. RevertMercy is right in every single point. Thank you!


#691

Why grammar not good?


#692

Gonna have to disagree. Let me argue these points.

  1. There’s a difference between the hiding that occurs with old mass resurrect and the current single one. One rewarded not being in the fight at all and simply letting the team die, which was not fun for either side. Since if Mercy did get shot when going in for res, the ally team would be mad she didn’t help, and the enemy team would be upset that potentially 3-4 ults could be undone with one button push. Current res relies on positioning and using your tanks to undo a mistake, which is significantly more interactive than the old iteration.

  2. Valkyrie is now to the point where it’s considered an “okay” ultimate. There is not nearly the same level of gameplay breaking that old resurrect has, as it does not give Mercy huge levels of speed or reset resurrect charges anymore. It’s now more on part with other support ults, allowing you to either have a pseudo Orisa ult effect or a stronger Lucio amp for your team, both of which are valuable.

  3. The time period was significantly longer than 5 months, she maintained that state for nearly a year. Mercy at the current moment is not “unimpactful,” she is only slightly subpar. She still has significant advantages that make her worth picking, and at most needs some tweaking to her HPS.

  4. Hatred is not exclusive to Mercy and never has been. People have been complaining about Hanzo, Brigitte, Genji since nearly day one, etc. There are people who still think Bastion is OP in 2018. The reason it seems so conflated is because of the amount of time where Mercy was prevalent. It was nearly an entire year until Mercy finally received what many considered to be the “nail in the coffin” to Mercy, the HPS nerf. Up until that time, Mercy was widely considered the best pick for the main healer position due to how much she provided and the ease of play. I’ve not heard anyone complain about Mercy being too good since then.

  5. I can’t think of a case where Blizzard has reverted a hero in Overwatch to such a drastic extent. Realistically, based on the complaints that were launched at the period of time where mass resurrect was prevalent, if it were to ever return it would need to be massively tweaked and that would ultimately defeat the point of it for the people who would be using it (Mercy mains).

  6. Mass Resurrect in its old form does not have a counter. It granted Mercy invincibility, meaning that the only way to cancel it was to kill Mercy before she even had a chance to start. Unfortunately, there’s an issue with this. Mercy is incapable of receiving knockback during Guardian Angel, so you cannot knock her away. The only way to stop it is to use a stun based CC, but that’s hit or miss due how generous old mass resurrect was due to its range. Most of the time Mercy did not need to go into the center of the team fight, so the resurrect would be free. Not much counterplay.

  7. Cosmetic voicelines is not a revert. The HPS returning to the old number is not a revert in the sense you are thinking of, it is a nerf. Returning to an old value does not change the fact that the rest of her kit is different to how Mass Resurrect Mercy’s kit was.

  8. Not even quite sure what point you’re trying to make here.

  9. I fail to see how resurrecting a tank or your fellow healer in a fight is not impactful. One resurrect is the difference between deterring a push a lot of the time. Since when you resurrect, you can potentially put an ult back into your economy, which is not a small gain. The difference is now you are reliant on your team more to actually let you get the resurrect off, which is good. This raises Mercy’s overall skill level by forcing team play, not unlike how Gravition or Orisa ult relies on team positioning and focus to take advantage of the ability.

  10. While the point of Mercy being “boring” is hard to argue due to its subjectivity, how would reverting her to her old state fix anything at all? A lot of players who used to play Mercy in that state left the game for good after Mercy was “nerfed” by introducing Valkyrie. And if you give mass resurrect a cast time, that arguably gives her an even worse kit due to how much you argue that CC would counter it. You’re essentially fighting to worsen your own character.

Mercy does not need to be reverted to a state where she’s unfun to play with or against. She needs to have her base kit changed to further increase her skill floor, or have her values tweaked to fix up her current weaknesses in the current meta.


#693

Thank you for this post. I really don’t care what they do to her at this point, she needs to be buffed, tweaked or reverted. Though I love Ana and Moira being my go to pick, Mass Ress with some tweaks should be fine in the current state of the game (lots of cc) and should place our dear Mercy in a better spot.
And NO, nobody wants (never wanted) her to be a must pick.


#694

Isn’t every ult situational?


#695

I’m sorry but the only reason Mercy was getting rewarded before for hiding was because of the broken SR system. Now that it’s gone, hiding is not an issue.

Stagger deaths or split up and kill the enemy?


#696

It’s nice you can keep on believing, may it bring you hope.

I only need one reason to think mass resurrect won’t come back and that’s Jeff having said so.


#697

Funnily enough, he hasn’t said this. :blush:


#698

This still does not stop the “I got a Quad Res” mentality that’s also prevalent with DPS ults. People feel the urge to receive play of the game and tend to hold off using their ult to the detriment of their team. It’s a lot better to get 1-2 picks or 1-2 resurrections than to save for a 4+ kill that will never come.

As for your second point, that only works partially. You say “stagger deaths” but that only works so well. Most second points on 2CP end up with team wipes during the final push, which Mercy feeds on. Additionally, you can only spread out a team so far on 2CP or KotH maps, since everyone is trying to capture the same central point.


#699

If such a rule existed, all 1:1-6 ultimates would get reworked into 1:1 ultimates. Also, if it isn’t encouraged by the ultimate, it isn’t an issue. Otherwise, a lot of ultimates would be getting reworked.

How about saving an ultimate for the ressed team? Surely, that isn’t hard. Besides, if you manage to kill the whole team and not kill the Mercy, you should be punished.


#700

“We have no plans to revert Mercy”

I’m going to take that as a no. Revert as in going back to the time before the rework, mind you.

Plans can change, but honestly this is a very solid piece of information to go by and nothing suggests they would’ve changed their mind. If anything, the repeated iterations of the rework suggest they are adamant about their decision of not bringing mass resurrect back.