Your pharah guide was really good btw. I learned quite a bit from it.
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I quoted above why Blizzard banned Visor. And it’s for doing the exact same things that live-coaching does. In fact, live coaching is worse, because it’s much more interactive and can provide insights, tips, advice and strategies that even the software could not provide.
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Ok. Why did they ban pursuit tho? Don’t you think it was some kind of all-or-nothing ban, so they won’t have to monitor every single feature in existing and upcoming third-party software?
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They don’t want anything in the game that tilts the playing field in an unfair way towards players who are employing something that artificially boosts their performance.
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I think you are wrong, visor was actualy providing certain info not achievable in game by the player. Thats why it was banned.
Here is statement from blizzard:
We have identified that your account was logged into Overwatch while using unauthorized third-party applications, such as Visor or Pursuit. These programs provide benefits not normally achievable in the game, and detract from the integrity of the game environment.
On top of that , its third party program which might be using certain informations in game which other cheat programs use so it might be harder to determine what is cheot or not for blizz anticheat. So its is save to ban this too.
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That’s the thing. In reality it’s more likely that their “definition” of cheating is so vague on purpose so that way if some new third party hack come along they can say it was already against the rules. Compared to if they just said something like “aimbots and wallhacks are cheating” then a new hack comes along that highlights ults and cooldowns perfectly accurately.
It’s like that to cover themselves for any third party software they want to get rid of without having to constantly edit the definition or keep a master list of banned hacks.
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You asked why I think aimbot =/= livecoaching. Sports coaching was an answer as an analogy.
Many players get banned for aimbotting, you can see a ton of it on forums, discord servers, social media, heck, even in game, they tell you when you’ve reported a cheater who gets banned.
Not ONCE have any of us, you included, seen someone get banned for live-coaching. I understand, just because we haven’t seen it doesn’t mean it never happened, but for any of us to have never seen it happen in 4 years of the game existing, while you can find plenty of it on youtube/twitch - yet we’ve seen hundreds of hackers get banned - you can SAFELY assume, given the fact that a blizzard employee deemed it okay, that it’s okay.
When livecoaching, you’re only giving the player information that they have access to, just don’t normally pay attention to. Just from discord screensharing, I don’t magically get access to everyone’s position and HP, I see what my friend sees, and tell her the best move with the given circumstances.
According to your logic, streaming on twitch must be bannable, since surely someone in chat is giving advice, and that’s a 3rd party program!.
Yet they allow you to have a better mouse than someone. They allow you to have a better monitor. A better setup overall. This is an advantage that tilts the battlefield, that artificially boost their performance. Just like a live coach. If we had it your way Miko, we’d have to ban all the 3rd party softwares, such as Logitech G Hub, which allows me to do malicious things such as change my mouse DPI and the RGB lighting flowing through it.
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Ok, acknowledged.
But Zax you’re ignoring parts of the quote that don’t support your argument while including others that do. You’re selectively cherrypicking bits of the quoted information that help your argument while pretending the rest of it doesn’t exist. That’s not good faith debating. What, just because you didn’t quote and respond to others parts of the excerpt, they suddenly don’t exist?
You’re going to tell me that the same people who don’t want software altering player actions are suddenly ok with a coaching doing the same sorts of things?
I’m going to quote it again:
“To provide more clarity, any third-party application that impedes on the competitive integrity in Overwatch is not allowed. For example, a third-party application that offers users information such as enemy position, enemy health, enemy ability usage, or Ultimate readiness creates an uneven playing field for every other player in the map.”
Visor analyzes your gameplay in real time and offers instant feedback while you’re playing, such as informing you how quickly your team’s healers are dying in fights and predicting when enemies’ ultimate abilities may be ready.
We take competition very seriously in Overwatch. The foundation of good competition is every player being equally-equipped to compete against one another, but many third-party applications erode the level playing field in Overwatch we strive for."
I don’t see how you think you have any basis for argument here honestly. Again, gonna agree to disagree.
Thank you, I’m glad you enjoyed it.
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Heck, they even allow me to have a second monitor! I could run statbanana (an Overwatch map marker software) on that monitor, where I could have aa positioning cheat sheet for every map. Or I could have pictures for preset nades for Ana there, bypassing the learning process!
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I dont think so, I didnt pick anything. This is full e-mail message send to players by blizzard, to people who were using visor or the other program.
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Oh sorry it isnt full message, but rest is not that interesting 
Here is full message:
We have identified that your account was logged into Overwatch while using unauthorized third-party applications, such as Visor or Pursuit. These programs provide benefits not normally achievable in the game, and detract from the integrity of the game environment.
The account holder is responsible for all activity on the account. This is only a warning and we are not penalizing your Blizzard or Overwatch account at this time. Continued use of unauthorized third-party programs will result in action taken against your account, up to and including a permanent ban, in accordance with the End User License Agreement(ht tps://www.blizzard.com/eula)
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They’ll just never acknowledge that Blizzards definition of cheating on the tos and report menu is purposefully vague so they can apply it to any third party program or hack that they need it to. Would a macro that constantly left clicks for me really provide an “unfair advantage” on virtually any hero? Not really but it’s still a third party program playing the game for me so it would be banned. Yeah they could say “bots and hacks” but then if a new cheat comes along that gives you perfect information on ults and cooldowns (not just guesses like visor did) then it wouldn’t fit a more specific definition so they keep it vague to allow them to use it as an umbrella for any software or program they want while also being able to cover account sharing.
That’s the simple reality of the situation and why they aren’t more specific on their “definition” and why a person from Blizzard officially said it is not considered cheating to give live advice.
And here you have longer explenation from blizzard:
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It was not answer to my question. It was a vague analogy, and not a particularly relevant one that allowed you to bypass actually have to think through your argument and provide your logic chain.
Live coaching is probably not only rare, but it’s incredibly hard if not impossible to detect. Correlation is not causation. You’re essentially making the argument that because you haven’t heard of any sanctions, that it must there be an acceptable practice. That’s a textbook false dichotomy, and a logical fallacy.
I’ve already discussed the employee thing, multiple times. I don’t view it as credible evidence.
No one said you magically had access to anything. Again, you’re attempting to cloud the issue. The issue is not how effective live-coaching is, it’s whether it’s an unfair advantage. Because you cannot collect and dispense information as effectively as software doesn’t make live-coaching legal. It’s still ruins the competitive environment.
And no, not according to my logic. According to blizzard’s own statement. Using twitch to alter a match outcome IS a violation of their policy. Stream snipers have been banned.
I’m going to re-post my response to someone who already used this argument, and why it doesn’t apply.
"So your argument is because Blizzard doesn’t issue guidelines on which hardware you’re allowed to use(*), that coaching players through every aspect of the match, minute by minute is fair, permissible, and in the spirit of fair competition. Gee, I’m totally convinced now.
(*)Because doing this would make perfect sense right? And logistically it’s totally possible! Blizzard could say for example “hey! that 144hz refresh rate monitor you already own is against policy, so go out and buy a new one to be Overwatch compliant.” They could also monitor every single piece of new gaming equipment that enters the market, check the specs, and then issue a compliance verdict on each one.
You’re totally right! This is a great argument! It’s not that it’s a logistical impossibility, it’s that they prefer some players to have an advantage through better hardware! And it also makes complete sense to bring up in the context of live coaching."
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As you can see in my previous messages(in link provided)
Visor and Pursuit were banned because they offered info for the player not normaly available/visible in game. Live coach has access only to what the player see.
Only case where live coaching would be unfair is if coach is watching someone on enemy team who is streaming and providing info for enemy player.
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It’s almost like Blizzard keeps their cheating “definition” purposefully vague in order to let them apply it to what they want to without having to constantly edit it. Like it can’t even be as simple as “any program or act that effects in game performance” because If I had a third party program that limits cpu usage by my other program to keep my game performance up is that not a third party program providing an unfair advantage over people who don’t use it. But guess what it’s not considered cheating because it doesn’t play the game for me and it doesn’t give me information in game I wouldn’t otherwise have access to so they don’t consider it cheating no matter what advantage I get from it.
You would think a statement coming directly from a senior game master at blizzard would clear it up. Doesn’t matter if a player THINKS it is or should be called cheating. If the officials don’t think it’s cheating then it won’t be acted on as cheating at all.
I can think a call by an official in sports is wrong but if especially after review they don’t change it? Then it doesn’t matter what I think the right call is.
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Zax/Nick, guys I’m done with this issue. It was an incredibly valiant effort on your parts. Seriously, I commend your endurance on this thing.
However, it’s incredibly, incredibly, INCREDIBLY idiotic on my part to have spent as much time and energy on this as I have. And I try to avoid being idiotic, but engaging in this back and forth to this extent was monumentally dumb. And utterly pointless.
Coming to this obvious realization now is like waking up from a trance only to realize you’ve driven 150 miles down the highway, against traffic, backwards, at 130 miles an hour. Wow. Just wow.
But I’ve learned something very important in all of this, so maybe it was worth it.
Good luck gentlemen.
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GG
20characterssssss
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Gg Nick.
20 charactrrrrzzzz
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