as a general trend maybe just rein is the definition of the tank everyone wants to play (similar to MMO tanks) XD coz lets be honest he’s unique in his own playstyle and almost no one wants to play a boring hero like orisa and winston and ball’s problem is not rein but its brig moira and other such heroes
Rein has never been the problem. The same type of people like you begged and cried endlessly for Orisa, Sigma, etc. tank nerfs when they were meta. They always got their way.
Rein is the only one not compeltely garbage, and now the fangs are out to get him, again. You people need to step back and stay silent.
Mercy enables all the fun DPS heroes.
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You don’t have to because what you suggest would lead to double-barrier unless you outright break the off-tanks.
I’m not. Most of the suggestions for “sigma and orisa buffs” won’t actually bring them into balance with current rein because people keep underestimating how powerful rein is. Sigma would need another 400 barrier health without any other changes at a minimum (so all of his bruiser buffs would remain), and orisa would require 4-500 barrier health at the reduced CD and her fortify brought back up to 50%.
If you wanted to buff them without touching their barriers, you would straight-up invalidate the entire off-tank roster.
Actually, I’d call the lack of competition a bug. Not a feature. It’s a flawed design that needs to be rectified, and they did it with both sigma and orisa when they nerfed their barriers and buffed their bullying capacities.
Because they don’t need buffs.
The other tanks don’t need buffs.
They don’t need to be at Rein’s level.
Rein needs to be brought down to their level.
Or, they see 1600 barrier health and think “wow. he’s the best tank™!” because 1600 barrier when the 2nd best is only 900 is just insane.
900 hp barrier with the ability to eat incoming projectiles btw if youre comparing that to firestrike and charge i feel sorry for you tbh
Doesn’t make up the missing 700 barrier, and his pick-rate compared to rein proves it.
Stop ignoring Rein’s dominant pick rate. It means something, and no it does NOT mean that “rein is just the coolest tank”.
It’s high because he’s broken and OP. If it were a dps hero you would all aboard the “they’re OP!”-bandwagon, begging for nerfs.
Rein is OP.
or maybe it is that people at our ranks suck at the game XD you know he’s the easiest tank to pick up and if you nerf him you essentially turn the tank role into a budget valorant role where only the hardcore skilled players survive the onslaught
you cant prove that and neither can i. it’s a shot in the dark and i can only predict the outcome
so wait, your problem with my suggestion is that they wont be brung up to reinhardts power? despite saying:
again, you couldn’t prove that and neither could I.
lack of competiton? you were the one saying off tanks compete with sigma and orisa so clearly they do have competition now. At least from your perspective they should.
and reinhardt doesn’t need nerfs.
i was referring to sigma and orisa here but as for whether the other tanks need buffs or not, idk yet
i do not agree with this. if a tank already feels bad to play, nerfing someone else to feel bad doesn’t change anyone’s situation. they’re still bad to play but now someone else is too.
the issue is we dont understand the game and we offer stupid feedback to the devs which leads them to create more heroes like release brig which in turn scuffs our experience as a whole and higher tier players leave
basically speaking this community is its own enemy
its always been that way, but the thing is, it’s mainly this community though. the forums are seen as the worst of the bunch seeing as how the only words we know are “nerf” and “buff”
they see the micro instead of the macro
oh yeah i mentioned this earlier
Even after the barrier nerf sigma orisa was still meta despite having a combined barrier health lower then rein’s barrier health because they provided far more damage and utility then rein.
It was only after they had their tools besides barrier gutted that rein became meta.
His passive really only negatively effected doomfist, ball no longer had to space pile drive to only hit the backline because pile drive now sends reins back line far above his shield to open up follow up. Most people delt with rein with hard cc, so resistance to knock backs didn’t shift his meta position (just bumped doomfist viability slightly upwards as seen by his increase in pickrate when the nerf hit)
Shatter nerf didn’t change his viability because he couldn’t kill after a shatter anyways without his team.
If you want to shift rein out of the meta without getting more tank players to leave the game, buff his alternatives.
every nerf or buff to any tank hero in the current state of tanks is an invitation to double shield and we sure saw how that went: everyone getting freezed by a mei, people getting doom punched in the face, reapers all day on those flanks. unless massive reworks happen to the heroes these forums will remain flooded with hate speech towards rein
double shield literally memes on rein in higher ranks
Oh, so you can predict the outcome but I can’t? Because you said so? I’m going to assume you meant something different.
However, what I am doing is saying that if you buff the barrier tanks, all you will accomplish is pushing the game back towards where we were before they nerfed them in the first place. This means that I have standing because, logically, if you do something you have already done, you should know what will happen when you do because you seen it happen before. When barriers were nerfed, off-tanks were NOT significantly changed and you’re not suggesting buffing the off-tanks as well. You’re only suggesting buffing the barrier tanks. It’s not my job to put words into your mouth to make your arguments make sense. It’s my job to tear them down and point out why they won’t work (because I believe they won’t work).
If your idea requires buffing the off-tanks, it is up to you to suggest those buffs. Then I still get to point out how you’re wrong and why.
So I was right. You did typo. Cool.
And I was just pointing out that the suggested buffs wouldn’t work. I wasn’t contradicting myself.
You said they shouldn’t be competing. I think they should.
We shouldn’t have “main tanks” and “off tanks”. There should just be “tanks”.
Hammond/D.Va should be just as viable as Rein/Zarya or Orisa/Hog, etc. The game needs variety. It’s what it was built to support, and tanks are the way to do it because they define your comp’s meta.
Yes he does. His 40% pick rate and 51% overall win rate prove that he does. His pick rate is unhealthy. It crowds out all the other tanks and because he enables Zarya more than any other off-tank, it means her 25% pick rate is the exact same kind of toxic.
Rein needs to be nerfed. Hard.
The other tanks don’t feel bad to play. It’s only against Rein that they lack anything. If there’s no rein on either team, the game is perfectly fine.
The only time the problem rears its head is when you have a rein on one team but not on the other. Those games feel bad when you’re not the rein because Rein is broken.
Wouldn’t it suck if I could bring some kind of chart to the conversation that would straight up disprove that?
https://www.overbuff.com/heroes/reinhardt/trends
Set the duration to “last 6 months” and check out his pick rate and win rate.
Patches fell on…
Dec 10, 2019: “while you wait” patch that nerfed barrier health for orisa and sigma and restored armor from 3 DR to 5 DR. Death of double-barrier sends rein’s pick rate from 8% overall to 10% overall.
Jan 16th, 2020: Major Baptiste nerfs to Frizbee and Ult charge rate. Mei M1 nerf, Orisa Fortify nerf, DF uppercut nerf.
Jan 28th, 2020: Heavy Orisa, Sigma, and Baptiste nerfs.
Feb 25th, 2020: “Mardi Gras patch”. Widowmaker scope nerf, Ball piledriver nerf.
Mar 24th, 2020: The first major dip in Rein’s pick rate. Archives event gave us a bunch of PvE modes for a few weeks. The Archives PvE event coincides perfectly with that strange dip in Rein’s pick-rate.
April 14th, 2020: The second major dip in REin’s pick rate. Echo was released, and Rein was banned in comp for a week around then as well. With echo’s release it people were playing everything to try and figure out her counters and synergies, and you can’t play a banned tank in comp so the dip makes perfect sense.
Overall, once double-barrier went away Rein’s pick rate has been steadily climbing over the past 6 months until it topped out at around 15% overall (roughly 40% for just tanks).
Let’s compare this to Sigma’s pick rates over the same time period…
https://www.overbuff.com/heroes/sigma/trends
When double barrier got nerfed his pick rate dumped by about 33%, went back up over the next 2 months, and then has been dropping ever since (barring the PvE event where people played him a lot for whatever reason, and the weeks Rein was banned and Echo was released).
And Orisa…
https://www.overbuff.com/heroes/orisa/trends
Same as sigma. The anti-barrier patch tanked her rep, and it’s been downhill ever since.
At no point since the anti-barrier patch has double-barrier been able to touch Rein barring the week he was banned (and Archives for some strange reason).
its not about viability, its about fun most of the playerbase finds rein to be a fun and rewarding hero when hit those fat earthshatters and people wanna play winston and ball as well but the thing gatekeeping them is the brig moira duo even rein gets shutdown by double shield mei comps
so ngl this forum has a problem of ranting and not actually doing work to ‘git gud’, we suck we gotta own it and not make it someone else’s problem and get carried