"Just give the rework a try before complaining" is a bad argument

I agree more with the “wait-and-see” mentality then what I just read, tbh.

No offense, but not all feedback is good or useful just from word-of-mouth changes that haven’t even been applied to the hero yet. Once they hit PTR, then our feedback would be more useful. Before though? Not so much, respectively :expressionless:

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pls make a symm megathread

I find it laughable that there are actually players out there who are already complaining that a troll pick hero, no no, the trolliest pick of all, is about to be…wait for it…“ruined”.

It;s absurd and just shows there will always be a fraction of this community who pounces on any opportunity to whine and complain about anything and everything.

We should be rejoicing that Sym is being reworked.


Saying that we should give something a chance isn’t shutting down an argument, it’s reasonably saying “Hey, let’s not jump to conclusions here.”

“xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx is a bad argument” does not invalidate that argument btw. i still stand by that argument. people should try giving the rework a try before complaining. whats on paper may seem very different to the actual thing


Symmetra and Mercy players are louder than those who wanted Scatter removed (which I’m glad for tbh).

Wait for the PTR.

All feedback is definitely not useful, especially when it’s based on almost nothing. We got a courtesy update through text and it’s clear that the rework is still in development.

Also, the reworks you mentioned were are sorely needed and have made the characters MUCH better. A vocal minority on the forums doesn’t change that.

Making assumptions before actually seeing how the new kit works is a bit too hasty, isn’t it?

I’d say we should give new Symmetra a chance.

I just want to remind that the intention on the thread is not to discuss the specifics on Symmetra changes. There is a ton of topics on that already. I’m talking specifically about the dismissive attitude of the usual reply I quoted in the OP.

Some feedback are more valuable than others. The Extra Credits video I linked in the OP point that out very loudly. My point is that feedback volume is good, as long as you (as a dev) know how to interpret that data.

Yeah, that is basically my entire second point in the argument.

Plus, Sombra didn’t got a rework, all her tools still function the same way it worked before. Compare that to Valkyrie, Micromissiles, or the mobile Hog Breather. Those are reworks.

It is when history shows us that once things are on PTR, they are set on drying concrete. It can change, but not by much. We have no ETA when those changes will arrive on PTR, and giving feedback now may save the devs a lot of coding/art work. Those things are expensive.

Not really. Remember when everyone whined Orisa would be OP? Lmao how did that go. Remember when Doomfist would ruined the game? uhhh yeah…rofl. etc.

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Brigitte was rolled back a ton on her PTR launch, and Lúcio’s speed nerf was reverted. I think there is room for change once it hits the PTR.

AFAIK, they fixed the animation cancel problem that allowed her to hit three times per second (something that Reinhardt also had at beta and was removed), and it was that. What else changed?

I’m slightly surprised that the community manager hasn’t made a megathread for Symmetra at least. If they don’t then I guess that just further reinforces the fact that the Overwatch team are using Mercy’s megathread as a form of silencing act on Mercy discussion on the main forum currently, not just to keep the main forum tidy (as there’s tons of Sym discussions last I checked). We already know they don’t actually really read it daily like they claim (based on forum profiles ‘read posts’ counters).

I agree with what some of the OP says, I fear however that Symmetra could follow the same path that some other reworks have taken (particularly Mercy’s). By that I mean… possibly too powerful at first, megathreads, feedback mostly ignored, nerf, nerf, and nerfed into the ground, then finally a continuation of megathreads that are ignored for a long time. I hope not and I wish the Symmetra rework the best of luck to go reasonably fine compared to some other reworks/significant changes like D.Va, Roadhog or Mercy.

Reworks however…

If Roadhog, D.Va, Junk, and Mercy are any indication, all of the theory crafting is just going to be wrong anyways.

Everyone said they’ll be trash tier with their respective PTR nerfs. None of them are even remotely in a bad place nowadays.

Make all the arguments you want, the devs are just going to take it with a grain of salt as they realize that even when we do have access to the rework, we’ll be completely wrong about how it’ll perform on live anyways.

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When doom is on the horizon, doomsaying is appropriate.


This is true if the “chance” is cheap to give. But in this case it carries the strong probability of deleting a hero from the game.

It’s like: trade your wife, for another random woman in the world. And give her a chance! This new woman may be great, but she is very obviously not your wife. And you don’t need to give her a chance to know that.


This is the most crucial part of your post.

Another thing that needs to be talked about is these people who are saying this either (A) are blissfully ignorant of Blizzard as a company, or (B) have never experienced Blizzard’s form of balancing.

Blizzard will often leave stuff broken for MONTHS before fixing / addressing it.

So now IS the time to complain and talk about it.

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I’m copypasting my response from the Torb thread because you are very Right™

the game patching lately has been better overall, but I’m not currently convinced that the team would do the sensible thing for ‘trying out the rework’ - that is, making it an option on the PTR and then removing/significantly changing it if it falls through.

That’s bolditalicized because between when I started playing Feb 2017 until, God, the last two or three months, anything that went on the PTR almost always hit the live servers exactly the same. Moira, who couldn’t attack turrets and had the Ice Wall issue, Mercy’s entire rework that’s been ‘adjusted’, what, 12 times now? Doomfist’s 17 Issues that, I believe, that thread had a significant part in changing the patch culture - but after he was released, buggy as all hell. Literally the only thing I can even kind of remember is Orisa’s HP getting knocked down a bit to balance her.

Do I believe that the team can eventually put things on the PTR and then rework them effectively before live release? Sure!

Do I trust them to do that right this moment? …No, not really. Like a 35% right now, and that’s highballing.

They’ve adjusted her ult and the cooldown on her shield bash now, not sure what else.

Overall it’s actually been great balancing, but probably could have at least partially been addressed sooner.

I feel like the PTR is just not being correctly used, but I’ll admit that I’m probably a little salty over all the reworking/lateness of patching in general too.