Jeff, what about 2/1/1 (4v4) instead?

In response to Jeff’s post:

How about 2/1/1 instead (2 DPS, 1 Tank, 1 Support)? If 7v7 is technically challenging and too chaotic because there is too much going on, why not do the reverse? There is already a lot of precedence for this:

  • Story modes usually are composed of 4 players, typically 2/1/1.
  • Some of the arcade competitive modes are 4v4.
  • Other shooters are composed of 3 or 4 player squads.

The biggest problems with 3/2/1 are:

  • DPS synergies will be much more obnoxious. Mei/Reaper/Pharah anyone? How about Widow/Hanzo/Ashe?
  • Higher chance of a DPS’s hero being taken. Queue times are better, but I don’t get the play the hero I wanted because someone else took it…
  • Off tanks needs to be insanely buffed just to compete as a main tank. In their current state, they are unplayable. Not just Roadhog, but D.va and Zarya especially. In fact, I feel that Roadhog in his current state would be in a better position than the other two. A huge red flag should be considering moving Roadhog to the DPS role. Or any tank for that matter.
  • Shield changes would have to be reverted and even buffed.
  • More pressure on playing tank - IMO to the point I would quit the game. Can you imagine what would happen if Reinhardt messed up his charge and died?

Right now you have a huge DPS queue problem. I get it. But the biggest reason for this problem is the tank role is less desirable to play. Adding a 3rd DPS player while removing the co-tank position is a BAD idea when there are 5 players to protect and 6 enemies to contend with without help.

2/1/1 is similar to 3/2/1 in that the co-tank role is gone. However, it has several benefits:

  • DPS queue times are even better - the same as 4/1/1 would be.
  • The tank only has to protect 3 people. In 2/2/2, it was kind of 3 or 4. Each tank protected half, and had the others back.
  • The tank only has to deal with 4 enemies.
  • The same benefits apply to the healer role.
  • Tanks don’t need as insane buffs.
  • Heal stacking is no longer a thing.
  • The game is better balanced across all modes.
  • Less cognitive load for everyone.
  • Less CPU resources needed (buff the FPS on the Switch?)
  • Higher likelihood of queuing with your friends in fairer matches.
  • OWL teams don’t have to shake up their rosters too much. They don’t need a third DPS player and only have to play 1 of their tanks.

The downside is you still have to balance the characters in this mode. But you’d have to do that with 3/2/1 as well anyway. But IMO, the balancing would be more healthy. Lastly, you may have to reduce the size of 2CP maps, especially Paris. The payload maps are probably fine.

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I’m gonna say it now cause frankly I had enough of all of this.

Stop letting DPS control this game, 2-2-2 already exists because of the amount of DPS, please lets not lower the amount in a team because of them too, Thanks.

I do not hate DPS, I just do not want everything about this game to be cause of how many exist.

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RIP off tanks and off supports, I guess.

This is an odd trend of topics…

Sorry to say, but DPS make up a majority of the player base. If Jeff came out and said they are trying 3/2/1, it’s probably going to happen. Which IMO, is bad. It will make more tank players leave. Having to protect 5 other players and deal with 6 enemies as a tank (3 of them DPS) is horrible.

IMO, if they are going to change the composition, I would rather it be 2/1/1. There is a reason most shooters have 3 to 4 player squads instead of 6.

RIP the game just so that some players dont need to wait thire turn…

Can you guys be any more selfish?
Oh wait, there where players that asked for free pink mercy, so you guys are closely second place.

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DPS sure did control.that GOATS meta. And Orisa/hog meta. And double barrier. And triple/quad tank.

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Or we just accept the fact that 2/2/2 has come to stay and try to improve the system instead of replacing it :woman_shrugging:

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what does that have to do with the amount of DPS players that are in the game?

Oh wait, it has NOTHING to do with that.

and I didn’t mean in that sort of aspect, I meant like the changes they are doing such as 2-2-2.

Learn to read the small print x

Does anyone here have an open mind? Or is it “it’s the DPS players fault” all the time? I’m a tank player, not a DPS player. I’m suggesting 2/1/1 because as a tank player I do not want to play in a 3/2/1 world. It’s too much the deal with.

I have, but that still dosnt mean i need to support this bad idea in any way.

And tbh, it kinda is the DDs fault and they deserve all the balme.

Honestly it sounds like 3-2-1 is more like optional 2-2-2, since it dumps the off tanks in the damage category. So instead of having to have two tanks, you’d have one and then hopefully a DPS picks an off tank instead of throwing the game.

I hate the 4v4 game mode, so I’d rather they keep 6v6 in main game.

Hey, I am not saying it’s the DPS fault, I’m saying the amount of DPS is what is controlling this sort of decisions.

I do not agree with solo tank. It ruins a lot of awesome things about this game.

I don’t wanna lose Rein/Zarya

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If it’s bad then explain why. If you have an open mind you should be able to give examples on why this is bad.

If Jeff Kaplan thinks that 3/2/1 is a good idea, then nothing is off the table.

I suprise you, they do work on 2/1/1, its called overwatch 2 pve mode.

I believe Jeff said 7 v 7 would be too expensive to implement, as it would require overhauling most of the systems, I’m guessing. I could be wrong but I don’t think he said the issue was that it’d make the game too chaotic :man_shrugging:t2:

Which is one of the points. If PvE is not 2/1/1, why isn’t the rest of the game? Why isn’t PvE 6 players?

  • Kills tank and support synergy

  • Would require an complete overhaul of tanks and supports to be able to work alone

  • Game will feel wores for tanks and supports, as they will feel even less impactfull

  • Like, just look at Nano Blade… If you only have one support, you need to get a Zen or Lucio to counter Nano blade…but gues what? Thire solo heal is trash…

  • IT WONT MAKE THINGS BETTER.

He said that a few months ago in another post when they were talking about the process of implementing role queue.

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