Jeff plays symmetra and mei :o

I’m not saying she wasn’t, and honestly the beam fix nerf she got isn’t my problem.

It’s the tp change, photon barrier health and duration nerf, and the turret damage nerf that makes no sense on a hero that relies on her abilities to do most of the stuff she does. You have to remember she’s a close range hero with no fluid mobility, low health, no defences outside of her ult, and a defensive ultimate as a dps. Because the devs love their gimmicks, Symmetra still holds onto these things that were fine as a support, but severely hold her back as a dps. Hell, her last support iteration was better than her current one as she had more area denial, an 2 ultimates that were both relevant to the character’s class, and had a defensive tool in her old photon barrier. She didn’t need the extra health then as she had a shield of her own for protection and an ultimate that increased her and her teams hp with 75 recoverable sheilds. She didn’t need the mobility as she could safely engage and disengage without it. She didn’t need the high damage as she had more turrets that, in total, deal the same damage as her gun now. And she could still charge of barriers back then. And her orbs went through barriers and players then as well. Combine that with not needing to aim and the extra bulk from her disco ball, she was more of a threat to double barrier then than she is now.

Sym’s primary did a direct pharra rocket (120) d/s without needing to aim. Taking that into account, she dealt more damage on average back then too.

No matter how you look at it, Symmetra before was much more threatening than she is now. While Symmetra is still a scary hero now, especially with the unpredictability of her new teleporter, she has way too many thinga holding her back that previous iterations covered for her. But the turret nerf made her damage overall weaker, even Zen can nearly outheal a single Symmetra turret. They also still die with a single melee attack from every hero, so punching them as they fly/are teleported isn’t difficult either (Granted, this is impossible with an Ice Bomb). Her teleporter changes also were a massive nerf to her overall survivability and versatility, as it used to be: throw it down, use it for 10 seconds, it self destructs, 2 seconds left to wait, boom, new tele. Now, it’s so much clunkier than it used to be, now that it needs to be manually self destructed with no change to its cooldown whatsoever. Her wall is more of an inconvenience than anything else, and unless it’s placed incredibly well, most teams will just walk right through it, making its less hp and duration literally useless for both parties, and she still has had no changes to her health, no added defences whatsoever, and still has the gimmic that is unsuited for a damage hero (the ramp up).

I went on a bit of a rant, especially with the comparison to 2.0, so I appreciate it if you actually read this all, but long story short:

Sym’s beam fix made her incredibly strong; I don’t deny that, and a lot of other Symmetra/Zarya players will not deny that either. However, Symmetra still retains so many flaws from her previous versions (the orb spamming, being a taxi, etc.) and her live version (little hp, survivability, fluid movement and the ramp up mechanic) that even with her high dps, her limited range and all these other flaws she has doesn’t make up for it. This is Symmetra’s meta, and she’s not being used par her usual niches that everyone loves on Hanamura and Horizon, or if there’s either a Sigma or a Dva, and both these heroes are going down in popularity due to their nerfs.

Again, thanks for reading this, I appreciate this is a wall larger than Sym can even imagine to create.

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This is GM before and after her beam nerf. She wasn’t in every game. The devs also forgot to point out that every shield break hero’s damage had went up by a similar amount.

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Ah so this confirms that heroes are balanced around developer bias.

Great to know, I always knew that every single time they started explaining why something was changed, they provided the dumbest examples why ability was oppressive or unmanageable and how their team couldn’t do even basic thing like kill symm teleport, which is why it had to be left in this awful garbage state. “Mass ress is unfun, matrix is oppressive, it always feels like symm has two teleporters, other healers can’t keep up with mercy healing” blablablabla. All the excuses.

Glad to see I was entirely correct and that the balance team utterly hates heroes like Dva and symm and torb and will do their best to make sure “true fps” heroes like widowmaker and hanzo will remain oppressive. =)

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Someone tell Jeff to pick up Genji.

Genji needs some help right now.

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If Jeff starts playing Genji, Moira will be deleted, Winston will be nerfed, Genji’s new pve changes and skills will be added to pvp, Blade will be able to outdamage Trans on it’s own, Genji will get 4 dashes, Sym will get ten more nerfs, etc.

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The bug-fix made her dps skyrocket. Meta or not, that was too much damage

The nerfs POST beam fix adjustments, i.e. The turret and photon barrier nerfs

you mean she has to play like sym 1.0 and 2.0 now in never being aggressive when the sym player wants to be unlike the rest of the damage heroes, must need to team pocket in order to get in effective range and stay alive there nor escape unlike the rest of the damage cast too… all because her ability to actually engage or disengage in/out of her effective range is put on a guaranteed 12s down time…

Like to me, it seems you’re the one that can’t accept that sym’s been effectively reduced to as if the 3.0 rework didn’t happen.

can you provide a detailed explanation of how a bug fix that can only have significant effect if the sym was missing a lot (which’d lead to low damage numbers anyways), was the only/main factor for the quoted increased damage as opposed to the META heroes on both sides of the match often freely giving sym opportunities to charge up to her 195dps at the start of each fight which prior to double shield sym likely only achieved 195dps once every 2 fights or so in middle (even that’s being generous)?

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you’re right, but what i meant to say is that this is the most we got for an answer about how the team feels about symm and if she needs further changes.

well the team might have some biases but they use stats we don’t have access to. i don’t believe anyone that says the team hates a certain hero, it’s most likely that they don’t have the same mindest as the main of that hero so they’re not that great with the changes they decide to inforce - but with that said, having only the mindest of someone that mains a single character is also bad balancing because you need to consider how the 30 other heroes are going to be affected by it.

Ah, yes. Big lead developer say Symmetra bad bad need nerf because he played 50 games. I’m sure there is no other metric by which the entire development team decided that she needed to be adjusted. Our evil dumb overlords and their insight is insignificant in comparison to our 5Heads with wineglasses. /s

well obviously jeff likes to CC and use area control effects like the wizard he is.

That’s not the reason, because Widowmaker has not received nerfs.

Got back to you late, sorry bout that. I guess I see what you’re saying, it’s just a matter of opinion in terms of what is considered threatening. I personally find new Symmetra more intimidating than the old one. With higher DPS output on her primary, a better teleporter, and turrets that’s I can no longer kill by sneezing, I just don’t see how the old Symmetra was scarier other than her auto lock.

But I understand your concerns with her drawbacks clashing with her label as a DPS. I’d love to see a final rework for her true final form.

I honestly find that hard to believe. that or hard to believe they’re using the stats correctly. Because why nerf the tp cd?

any person wanting to get good at sym will know that tp is literally sym’s bread an butter ability to do things. putting a guaranteed 12s down time on it when having a year worth of data in which she has not been a problem with a much more frequent tp makes no sense.

and now we’re back to having both core problems for sym: unable to get in effective range like the rest of the dps cast can (what old tp solved), and unable to live reasonably long enough in effective range to be effective like the rest of the dps cast can.

and to top it off, we know they can put in better cd mechanics/conditions to make it more reasonable and fair for both sym and her enemies as shown by how sombra’s translocator cd change.

He practically admitted it back during an old interview during the D.Va mega thread days.

I’ve seen him play Ashe too. Hes VERY good at her. I’ve come across his gameplay stuff here and there. Jeff really just needs to have MORE youtube time and stream. He seams like an “everyone’s kinda of person”. Type. I bet he is pleasant to have as a boss too. :smiley_cat:

he didn’t help Sym…

Actually I don’t think he really played her. Otherwise the turret UI bug would’ve been fixed but it’s not and it’s in the game since winter(?).