If it is so easy and btw op, why don’t you pick up Ana and climb to GM.
At least in hog meta nade was used primarly defensive and hadn’t much impact offensively (based on ML7 stream, one of the best Ana)
I challenge you to find me 5 games of ML7 in which offensive nade was so easy to land and had good impact
moiras orb is easier for one, but I wont list more examples as it doesn’t matter to you. You wouldn’t come up with such an asinine argument if you actually knew what you were talking about. It is so EASY to block nade/miss nade/use nade at the wrong time/ eat nade/ bait nade etc etc. It is not the OP ability everyone is making it out to be. The only arguments to it being OP that have any merit are the ones criticizing the duration of anti, which I can kind of see as being an issue in niche scenarios. However those scenarios are rare and in order to hit those fat antis as ana you have to be literally uncontested which is more an issue with the enemy team that it is ana being OP
You often go on a flank/mini flank to land a good nade.
Very high risk and high reward. You are isolated and if you get caught you are dead and your team will very likely loose the fight
That’s not what literally means and even if you meant effectively that’s wrong too. Having to reload two shots sooner is not insignificant. Do you want her to have like half magazine size or something?
I feel like here you’re mistaking potency for difficulty.
You’re right, it’s not easy to make massive plays with it though, and it’s so potent that the entire enemy team is always looking to counter it though. But compared to other abilities it’s pretty standard.
Few would say that Junkrat’s mines are hard to use, but really it’s about the same. It just doesn’t tend to cause quite as many deaths or save as many lives. Their entire enemy team isn’t spending their time looking to stop a stray mine because that ability isn’t overpowered.
Here’s a thought - play Ana instead of Mercy or Brig. Oh right, you are a bitter one-trick.
That’s an incredibly meaningless statement, given that most people can’t play easy heroes to GM.
Are you saying Ana is easy? Because thats genuinely laughable.
I don’t really have a problem with the flat 60 damage as it’s just not that much damage and there’s the certaintry of how the combo works with her 70 damage primary fire.
I don’t like RNG in my games.
And it’s still RNG even if the “seed” for the RNG is mouse movements, that’s effectively what you get with splash damage being highly variable with radius.
If there is going to be randomness it needs to be many instances that averages out to be quite consistent over time, like a shotgun with lots of pellets or a very fast firing machine gun. TF2 had random damage spread for years until it was finally removed and everyone loved it.
I also think if you tried to have the anti-heal be variable with splash radius it would just be straight up broken, the game engine is NOT designed for something like that and any work around will inevitably have bugs. Anti-heal is a fixed listed debuff it’s in the code as a boolian “Can target be healed yes/no”.
However I know the game engine treats direct hits and splash as discrete inputs that can have discrete effects.
No it isn’t.
Ana mains talk out of both sides of their mouth saying disparaging Bap’s nades no skill as they have a splash radius when bionade has an even wider radius!
That doesn’t mean it isn’t an easy low-skill part of her kit.
Some things are easy to do but hard to counter, some things are hard to do and hard to counter and all sorts of combinations.
And Ana’s nade often is NOT easy to counter.
If it means ALWAYS keeping a barrier up then no, that is NOT an easy counter as barriers go down. Reacting in time to the hard to read input of a bionade being thrown also isn’t easy.
It’s really hard to counter because so many things that would block anti-heal don’t extend 4m, like genji’s deflect and Sigma’s KG.
I don’t think you realise how worthless it is that Barriers block the splash damage considering if there’s a barrier in the way then… they’re not taking damage. Because there’s a barrier protecting them. So why would lack of healing be at all relevant?
Maybe it is.
Maybe it isn’t.
If timing really is the true limiting skill factor - as you claim - then needing to land a direct hit rather than splash radius isn’t a REAL nerf for the true ana mains, it would only be a nerf for the mediocre Ana players who play her because it’s easy to spam bionades in the general direction of the enemy.
Because I am not such a loser that I’d be so desperate for hollow victories that I’d play a hero I don’t like just to get reliable wins. There’s nothing fun about spamming bionades for anti-heals.
However there are many losers who do that already.
I play heroes that interest me.
I don’t care if they don’t interest you, you are not me. I don’t pretend to like things I don’t like to fit in with other people.
Says who?
Whose expert assessment of ML7 is that?
And why should anyone care about ML7?
I don’t watch ML7, I play Overwatch. This is a forum for people who play overwatch. ML7 is not representative of all of Overwatch.
This is like looking at the homelessness rates of billionaires and saying “well they don’t have a homelessness problem so I guess we don’t have a homelessness problem in this country”.
I challenge YOU to give me a good reason to waste my time searching through something that’s totally
Did you log into the wrong website?
This is the discussion forum for OVERWATCH!
This is NOT the discussion forum for “pro-gamer fanboys club” I don’t care about what pro-gamers do, the game dynamic is completely different when you’re literally paid to perform utterly reliably.
When everyone else plays Overwatch if teammates aren’t coordinated, they don’t get fired, losing their income and then have the bank repossess their mansion.
No, I think she’s an example of a hero with a great skill to output curve.
She’s forgiving, a lot of her gameplay is designed to maximise her usability outside of high skill-pc play. That’s why she has the big projectile sizes, the challenge-free ult, the AOE sizes.
She’s sort of like Brig, she doesn’t need babying like Zenyatta, and her output is strongly dependent on her good she is in terms of game sense and ability to hit moderately challenging shots, but the baseline output is high. When it came to nerfing Brig, they went after her survivability, making her less forgiving and more challenging. Her output was still great, but it now meant that the player was more challenged to achieve it.
If Ana needs nerfs (which she probably does) I’d prefer them to go after things that allows her skill curve to continue to exist.
4m splash radius is really REALLY wide.
And it’s pretty easy just to spam sleep darts into a melee and hope for the best.
Just because Ana’s primary fire healing is relatively harder than Mercy or Zen’s healing doesn’t mean it’s particularly hard in absolute terms. It’s a really wide projectile that shoots absurdly fast, there are loads of heroes that don’t depend on mobility at all for survivability and they are really easy to hit to heal.
It’s not so incredibly mind bogglingly hard that that alone should mean no part of her kit at all should be nerfed.
But you could leave her primary fire healing alone.
You could leave the splash radius healing of her bionade alone.
Just nerf the splash radius anti-heal.
ML7 is one of the best Ana and he is representative of what Ana is capable of at GM/T500
If you don’t care about how GM/T500 and OWL plays we don’t need to discuss it at all.
This was in hog meta and it hadn’t change that much, especially since DVa is back.
We don’t have stats for offensive assist, it’s a shame because it would be really helpful to have stats.
Since we don’t have stats, the next best thing we can do is look at T500 streams of Ana mains. What we see is that all these statements just aren’t true.
If this mysterious, easy, team wiping nade not constantly happening at T500 why the heck is it happening at gold/plat? (spoilers: it isn’t)
Can we please stop being disingenious.
One thing I forget:
If you constantly gets naded it’s a you problem
Guys, we should be striving for all supports to be as fun and impactful as Ana, not drag her down to their level. What would that achieve except officially setting the new standards for supports as “anemic”?
They thought healing creep was an issue? Fine, but at least give the supports other ways to contribute to the fight, even if it’s just to enable making the fights end faster. Just don’t leave them with little to no individual impact.
4m isn’t that wide. Orisa’s halt was 4m at one point and it literally couldn’t grab much of anything. Ana’s nade cooldown is 10 seconds, there is plenty of time there to run over Ana.
“Easy to spam bionades”
You will die a lot as Ana spamming bionades, thank you for signalling to me you dont have the slightest clue
So what?
The top racing driver can race at 120 miles per hour weaving in between traffic, so therefore anyone should be allowed to do it?
Yeah, you’re in the WRONG forum.
This is overwatch general. As in, the whole game.
Unless the playebase of Overwatch is only 500 people then the top-500 is totally irrelevant.
it’s not even a 500 random sample, it’s literally the most unrepresentative sample.
You’re not referring to any point that I made.
I never said anything about a team wiping nade, I said it’s just easy to spam bionades and you’re so likely to apply anti-heal.
Yes, your straw-man scenario isn’t happening.
Congratulations.
I mainly get hit directly for reasons that should be obvious from my profile icon.
I am not being selfish, this is about what is good for the game as a whole. Not just me personally, not a fanboy obsession with what pro-gamers do.
The.
Whole.
Game.
You’re just trying to imply I’m saying something I’m not to shoot the messenger.
That’s because it had to do a completely different thing, it couldn’t just grab them, it had to grab them and bring them to a useful point. There’s not value in moving them 4m in a random direction, you’ve got to move them into a pit or something.
The 4m radius was hard because you’re not just aiming it to be as close to them as you can, you’re trying to aim it as far away as you can to a point you’d want to move them to.
Anti-heal just has to aim at the ground or wall near to them as you can catch within the radius and that’s it.
Now if Halt worked fundamentally differently where the value was just in them being caught in the radius it would be a fair comparison. Something like it has the root effect. But that’s not how Orisa’s halt works.
I get your point, but the argument was just about the range comparison, not the purpose of the skill. Orisa players had to aim halt way closer to people to compensate because 4m was short. It’s not as wide as you’re exaggerating it to be. Is Ana not supposed to be rewarded if she hits a good nade?
Not a constructive post to call for a nerf to a hero based off the premise of how you feel about the changes made to another hero.
Now does she need a nerf …
Maybe, it’s always a opinion based debate.
But this is not the way to go about a discussing a change that you want in the game.
It should be from a place of unbias and be for the benefit of the entire game and roster.
This is poison for the game.
If you want to make a suggestion for nerfing Ana go for it just like you did but give some actual reasoning so people can have a proper intellectual discussion.