They sort of go hand in hand don’t they? If you are reporting them off not picking a tank, aren’t still reporting them based on the hero they chose?
I’ll agree to this. Nothing to add here.
That’s a pretty big grey area, what about on KOTH and you already capped the point? Do you still have to stay on point?
Or rather do you mean ignoring it to spawn camp an enemy? Because that’s rather situational, and I’m still iffy on this.
On one hand I agree, that if they completely ignore the objective (and by that I mean staying in the enemy spawn to try to spawn kill someone WITHOUT coming back to the point to help out).
On the other hand, there are those times where you get stuck behind enemy lines, and you’re team gets a pick, but you stay to ensure that the player cannot come back to save the fight.
I’m really 50/50 on this one, but if I had to make it reportable, I hope it wouldn’t result in a really long ban, maybe for a couple hours increasing every time you get banned, just so that people who do this unintentionally know not to do it again without losing their account for a couple days.
Agreed, nothing to add.
Not sure on this point either, because it’s very situational. What if the person who picked 6th DPS ends up doing better than the person who picked DPS first? Does the 6th picker still get reported? Do you report at the beginning or the end of the game?
Alright, I’ll put myself into the situation. I like to play Hanzo in QP because I can already play Tank and Healers to my current competitive level, but DPS is a role I am severely lacking in, and am finding myself having to fill more and more. I like Hanzo’s design and kit so I thought he would be a really fun hero to learn how to play. But if I can’t load in faster than 2/3rds of my team, I can’t learn to play Hanzo because it would be reportable. It’s why I have so much time on Roadhog in QP because I filled so many times for tank, it didn’t matter that I was essentially just another DPS or that I was getting shot a lot, people didn’t complain so long as I was a tank.
What do you mean by “Forget the team”? That’s pretty subjective, could you maybe give me an example (other than not picking tank/healer).
Not playing the objective I already addressed. And Forget everything if you mean going AFKk then yes that’s reportable.
Well because some people want that actually game experience where people try to defend the objective instead of them selves. Could be a reason.
But I’ll agree that if you ONLY go for kills (I.E staying in enemy spawn trying to camp) that it is reportable in “Gameplay Sabotage” BUT only if the it is a light punishment.
But going in alone and dying, they might just be bad, and you can scream at your computer and call them an idiot, but reporting when they might just be bad is taking it to the next level that doesn’t seem right to me. Unless they are just not shooting at them and spamming “hi”, or seem extremely tilted and appear to be throwing, then I would advise against reporting.
I actually agree with most of what you wrote, which was pretty well put. So thanks for that
To address that quote: QP can be just for giggles, if everyone is fine with it. You can get a 6 man pre-made and and go all dps all day and that’s 100% because everyone is cool with it. Again, this thread has gotten wild so reading the whole thing start to finish is way too much to ask, but the general consensus was:
"You signing up for an objective based game mode with the knowledge that your team could ask you to play towards that objective. If everyone is cool just playing 6 dps for giggles, that’s fine. That would be fine in comp if no one truly minded losing SR and just wanted to have a troll-y game for fun. But IF they’re asking you to play towards the objective, you’re agreeing that you’ll do that.
If you don’t want to work with your team (aka, take into account their opinions, work with them to make a team comp, try and pick heroes that work well together for a given map, whatever else) then there are game modes where you’re not making that implicit agreement: Like death match modes. These modes exist because you don’t want the obligation of being a part of a team and having team mates rely on you"
The general rule of thumb I’ve used is:
Pick what you want
If people ask to play the game mode for the objective, and would like a balanced team comp, re-evaluate my pick
If there were too many of my role for the comp to realistically work, and I picked after the other people in my role, I’ll swap. After all, they picked a tank/healer/dps whent here was still a need for one, I didn’t.
If no one communicates a desire for comp changes, just stay where I am.
The main problem you get, realistically, is that these same people that are picking 4th/5th/6th dps picks are almost always the same ones giving the toxic “LOL cry about it, it’s just QP MAN” responses. Overwhelmingly, non-toxic players will agree to shuffle comp around to try and not be rude to their team mates.
They should just make some silly hub world for players who just want to prance around and emote. But the other side of the coin is that those screaming for bans are more often than not concentrating so hard on trying out their own thing whether it be a hero or an ability/strat of that hero that they forget that’s what other people might be doing too.
The worst people in QP are not the mess around types or practice types, but the ranked tryhards who go into QP not to de tilt from their games but rather to come in like a drill sergeant and demand hero picks so THEY can practice some team comp. That’s what scrims are for.
No, stating that we need a rule Y while there is rule X in place does not imply anyone abusing any rule.
You said nothing that contradicts the fact that your response “we do have rules that cover X” to “we need rules to cover Y” makes no sense and lies in the realm of petty.
Insults are subjective term. Do you think insulting should not be punished just because it’s subjective?
When you can perceive something subjectively it doesn’t mean it can’t be wrong or shouldn’t be punished.
Alright, so since we both didn’t counter our examples but just provided a “maybe not”, can we then conclude that there are both, situations X where your hero A is a low mechanical skill hero and your hero B requires mechanical skill that you don’t have AND there are situations Y where your hero C requires not as much mechanical skill for you to be more viable than hero A in the current situation? Agreed?
So? Nobody talked about being 100% certain.
If a certain hero has been utterly futile for half the match against a certain teamcomp there’s little to support the view that this will suddenly change in the second half (again, not saying that it’s impossible, but if you keep doing exactly what is not working, you’re jeopardizing the match due to hubris).
You do realize that the “multiple counters per hero” rule doesn’t exclusively apply to the enemy heros but as well to the very hero you are playing?
Say I want to play widow at all costs. The enemy team run a Tracer who wrecks me 24/7. I might say: “But we run a Brigitte who counters Tracer, so it’s ok.” I might even say: “Hey, we have a McCree, so that’s already 2 counters for my counter. Yay, it so doesn’t matter what I play, my team does all the countering for me.”
But then I’m totally oblivious to the other side of the medal. I neglect that they run a Reinhardt blocking my shots, I neglect that their DVa is in my face all match. I neglect that their Genji harasses me and my poor healer teammate. I neglect that their Mercy has been resurrecting 3 of the 4 people I eliminated the last 4 minutes.
Considering also this side of the medal, I would be the most inconsiderate, inane person in the world to say: “well, because each hero has multiple counters, it doesn’t matter what I pick against their team”.
You can’t deny that there aren’t certain teamcomps who have the upper hand against other teamcomps, whether due to synergies within the team or due to constellations that maximize one team’s ability to counter the others while keeping the other team’s ability to re-counter at a minimum. And if you want to deny that (or assert that it’s just 1% of the cases), it’s gonna need an actual argument behind the statement.
You’re missing the point and get lost in petty stuff again. My statement was not about the smugness but about the unwillingness to switch. Try again:
But when I notice that I switched for the 3rd time in the match and you still fail to bring anything to the table while not wanting to even try another hero, it becomes apparent that the situation requires more than 5 people working around one pighead, i.e. a full team working together. This is regardless of whether your currently played hero is your favorite #1 or your favorite #4 hero.
Alright, one more time for you:
I win a game, I perceive someone cheating => report.
I win a game, I perceive nobody cheating => no report.
I lose a game, I perceive someone cheating => report.
I lose a game, I perceive nobody cheating => no report.
I win a game, I perceive someone harassing in chat => report.
I win a game, I perceive nobody harassing in chat => no report.
I lose a game, I perceive someone harassing in chat => report.
I lose a game, I perceive nobody harassing in chat => no report.
I win a game, I perceive someone griefing by handicapping my team => report.
I win a game, I perceive nobody griefing by handicapping my team => no report.
I lose a game, I perceive someone griefing by handicapping my team => report.
I lose a game, I perceive nobody griefing by handicapping my team => no report.
This is about as independent from winning and losing as it can get.
Got it now?
Already told you it was a concious decision of mine.
Don’t know why you keep denying that or what about it you didn’t understand.
Hold on…they can’t be moot, because in order to define the term “handicap”, we need something more than just “it’s SOMETHING that’s subjective. end of definition.” We actually need to define that “SOMETHING”. The subjectivity/perception part is already covered in statement 3, so what remains is the question if you agree to statements 1 and 2. And if not, for what reasons.
Alright, alright. So this SEEMS like you agree to statement 3?
Just asking because you didn’t clearly state so, to avoid a misunderstanding.
So if someone masks/hides their throwing in a way so you don’t notice it as blatant, you wouldn’t consider it a deliberate action and thus you wouldn’t report them?
Oh boy…everything that is directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining is ad hominem, no matter what you do first or second. It doesn’t belong here and is out of place. Calling it “jab” doesn’t make it any more appropriate and doesn’t exactly reinforces your credibility here.
People who think they are funny…it’s always a bit sad to watch.
Geez…please mind the context. This is about the game rules, not about the forum rules.
Abiding by game rules just because they have been defined by the developers of the game has no value in a discussion that is about the sanity of these very rules.
So you ask me a question that refers to trying.
And when I tell you we need to define what “trying” in this matter means, first (which seems pretty obvious to me), you reply by repeating your question.
When I ask you what you didn’t understand about the fact that we need to define “trying” first, you don’t answer why on earth you need an answer before we even defined “trying” but escape into a “but you’re twisting it all”-excuse?
I mean, come on guy…
I’m happy to provide you with numerous examples to your “trying”-relevant question as soon as we have defined “trying”. You wanting an answer without that definition and not even explaining why and how that makes sense, flies in the face of reason.
There is a solution, and that is the developers coming clean, stating what QP is about and start punishing people that don’t work together as a team, as they’re effectively ruining the game for others.
But given the state of competitive as well, I don’t think there is enough care at Blizzard left for QP.
Play competitive if you want serious Overwatch. Play any other mode if you want crazy Overwatch.
If you want QP to be unranked competitive, you’ll have to press for a mode QPers will like. I know I’d like at least 8v8, majority presence capture rules, and much shorter respawn times. An actual unranked competitive mode wouldn’t solve anything until there is something more enticing for people that just want to “DM it.” Elimination isn’t it either - it’s Counter-Strike: Overwatch. I don’t want to wait for the round to end to get back into the fight.
P.S. 17 days and I’m just now getting a prompt about this reply? Da f**?
There’s no stopping how people treat a mode. Blizzard can only encourage player behavior, but they can not force player behavior.
They can punish people who don’t respect the teambased nature of the mode.
Sure, this is technically not forcing anyone to stop doing it or obliterating that behavior altogether, but it will certainly make it less likely.
They tackle blatant sabotage by way of feeding ultimate charge, team disruptive behavior like Mei’s ice wall in her own spawn, hiding in a corner and avoiding the objective and the enemy entirely, etc.
What they won’t tackle is someone playing Torbjorn or Symmetra because someone else thinks that’s a stupid hero choice, and I’d say that’s pretty much 99.7% the kind of complaint Blizzard receives regarding “player throwing/trolling” - petty, selfish complaints of people not happy with how another player is playing the game, even though that person is playing the game.
The percentile is an exaggeration. The reality is that they’re not going to ban Torb one tricks from QP. It ain’t happening.
This is not about someone playing a hero you don’t like. This is about people who can’t make their hero choice work and ignore the fact that they still have a responsibility in the team they fail to fulfill.
It’s just QP. Get used to it being the free-play mode or go to competitive where the stakes are high enough to get people to take it a bit more seriously. You choose to go into QP. So it’s your problem if you can’t take what happens there.
This is the same old mantra people keep repeating.
It doesn’t provide any reason to why ignoring teamplay in QP shouldn’t be punished. It just tries to free every player from their responsibility to respect this gamemode, just because there is another mode where you accept that teamplay is a necessity. “Go somewhere else or it is your problem that other people can’t behave” - was never a good argument.
I did provide you with a reason: Blizzard would be punishing MILLIONS (a number followed by at least 6 more digits) of players to enforce QP. That’s not just unreasonable, it’s insane.
Go to comp, create a custom game, or deal with QP. Those are your options.
Someone people choose it just to have fun…that doesn’t mean they don’t necessarily cares what happens
Some people choose to just use it for their own personal gain…be it practice (usually this), achievements, aim, loot boxes…w/e…the point is there is an underlying “ 11 other people be damned if what I’m doing isn’t exactly fitting with what the game is about…” mentality
It’s quick play not practice for a reason…casually play the game…which still involves a certain goal in case that needs reminding
And that is not an indictment for those playing qp for the second reason either…the fact of the matter is there is no “practice” mode so I can’t blame people if that’s what it’s used for…but it doe bother me that people simply don’t understand why people have a problem with “it’s just qp”
Most people are playing with the goal in mind in QP.
They’re just not always going to hop off a character if it ain’t working out. There’s literally nothing that can be done to stop them, simply through the sheer quantity of players that practice this behavior.
Generally, what people have a problem with is assuming if someone isn’t playing 100% to win at all costs, they’re throwing, which is factually untrue. The number of people running off and humping a corner is miniscule. Most players are legit players being misrepresented by people that treat QP like comp and expect everyone else to do the same.
It’s not millions of players who ignore teamwork in qp.
Just because you think this request about punishing non-teamplayers covers 99% of the playerbase doesn’t mean it can’t lead to a punishing system that at least punishes 1% of the non-teamplayers.
There are people playing Overwatch who are naturally submissive and possibly even enjoy being humiliated. They’re often the ones who say “it’s just qp.”
You’re in the wrong game mode, you don’t have to have a mic to play competitive. QP is just for doing whatever you want. Winning/losing doesn’t even matter at all. As long as people aren’t breaking the rules by griefing and stuff like that its fine.
