It's cruel to keep the MMR formula hidden

Competitive Discussion
16

I think the MMR is based on long term winning trends and how well you do against proven people that are similarly rated (i.e. it cross checks to see if you win expected losses or lose expected wins)

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17

the only thing they would find out is what wins and what loses, I don’t know why you think this is a bad thing.

18

All that really maters is winning games and a player’s over all total win rate. The rest is just table issue that has little to no impact in the grand big picture of who does or doesn’t move up in SR or tiers.
I totally understand wanting to know, being people just like to know stuff but that’s different than needing to know.

How does knowing the hidden numbers and system really help a player with a 43% total win rate? How does it change a player’s game play if they are already up +1400 SR with a 62% win rate over all?
It just doesn’t mater outside of just simple curiosity.

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19

That’s why I said it was cruel and nothing more.

You’re still an advocate of keeping it secret and yet to have give a specific scenario of how it can be exploited. Diamond and above have no PBSR. If the MMR formula was released today, I want to you describe what some Diamond+ players might do to exploit it. If you can show me how it is exploitable for people who are Diamond and above, I will probably change my mind.

20

This. The sheer number of posts created by a handful of people who all pretend that it’s not because they want to exploit the system is absolutely staggering. If only they had spent the hundreds or thousands of hours declaring their “need” on playing the game instead, they’d likely be 3 tiers higher than wherever they started posting.

The only thing people need to climb is to improve their own game and stop looking for external factors to blame.

21

I don’t even play this game anymore. But I do like to examine it, as a third party participant, of couse.

22

i am by no means a good player at overwatch but i know for a fact im better than the people im getting lumped with… i continuesly pick last doing what needs to be done… to what avail? to tank when no one wants to stick on point or utilize a shield? or to heal when i get no support or a tank who has a death wish? i understand there is certain values and what not… but i like m account i dont care if its the account i started on … i shouldnt be forced to make an alt just to climb the ranks… if i get a few core players i can get up near 2k asoon as i leave them i get lumped with kids who dont care about the games core value 6v6 … not FFA COD PUB STOMP … so what do i do? keep in mind i dont wanna start a new account

23

Then why are you here on its forums? You’re either in dire need of a new hobby or full of it. My bet is the latter.

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24

I have decided to devote my life to the critical analysis of the Overwatch competitive ladder. My methods are so intense, I no longer have time to actually play the game :slight_smile:

25

I mean, that’s the whole point isn’t it? People want to maximize their SR gains by doing whatever is most efficient. All heroes should be able to climb just as well as each other anyway, if the MMR system is balanced. So what harm is there in showing exactly how it works? Unless in showing us they reveal that certain heroes/roles have a massively unfair advantage in climbing, which people would be rightly upset over. :man_shrugging:

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26

It’s not as much for hero-specifics but rather how the system decides who to put in a game, which teams to put them on, and how much SR it should give each player upon winning or losing. In fact, it actually has been exploited in the past at various levels.

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27

some ones got to do it man

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28

how? I want to hear exactly what happened. I assume you’re going to give an example about PBSR. Also, if the MMR formula was secret at the time of the exploit, how did they pull it off :thinking:

I guarantee you can not even make up a plausible story as to how a hidden SR hinders Matchmaking manipulation.

29

I believe it was these Brazilians who exploited queue times in order to only get games against low SR players. It wasn’t PBSR, but it was the matchmaker. In fact, Blizzard fixed it almost immediately after that scandal became public. I can’t imagine what might be found if the MMR system is fully published. I can’t really give any real examples of how the system would be exploited since I don’t know how the MMR system works (obviously). However, my best guess is that people would find a way to confirm if they can get in games with people they know and then be able to win trade more efficiently.

On a side note, I’m personally against PBSR. I don’t think it works well for what it’s supposed to do and promotes stat-padding instead of simply trying to win the game. However, that’s an argument for another forum post.

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30

they made sure no team could have a greater than a 60% win chance, that’s how they solved the Brazilian problem.

Win Trading Coalitions: All you have to do is get a group of friends and agree amongst your selves to soft throw any time your supposed to. Whether you’re supposed to be throwing to bolster one person, or if you have to soft throw because there’s 2 coalition members on your team and 3 coalition members on the other.

A public MMR formula would not be beneficial to coalitions that win trade.

If PBSR was abolished and MMR made public, the only way you could affect the matchmaker is by loosing. cuz let’s face, you can’t win more than you want lol, right?

so if throwing is the only way to manipulate the matchmaker, how would a public MMR formula facilitate this?

31

I’m probably done for tonight. You’re trying to say that you can’t come up with a hypothetical way to cheat the system for a system you don’t know (as it hasn’t been publicized), and then you try to say that it can’t be exploited because you couldn’t think of anything. Do you not see the absurdity in this? It’s like saying “I nor anyone else can’t think of any way to hack into the Millenium Falcon, therefore it has impenetrable systems.”

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32

gonna stop you right there, you say MMR can’t be made public because it will be exploitable, yet you can’t explain how it would be exploited

is it just a gut feeling? I can understand that, but as for me, I’m gonna need some proof as to why.

33

No matter how much evidence you provide this guy, he’s going to ignore any logical counter and cherry-pick and misquote you in order to continue his “points.” On the rare occasion someone agrees with him in a thread he likes to try to organize witch-hunts. It’s best to just not feed the trolls - but I totally understand wanting to correct falsehoods.

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34

Anyone is welcome to provide me with contrary evidence.

35

You are asking me to explain how to exploit a system that no one knows. You are insinuating that it is unexploitable because I cannot find a way to exploit it when I don’t even know how it works because that information is unavailable to me (please stop me if I’m straw-manning here). There is literally nothing to gain from publicizing it. For the average player, nothing will be affected. However, it opens the possibility of people exploiting the system and going up the ranks in an unfair way.

I like to give people the benefit of the doubt when it comes to potential trolling. Could he be? Maybe. However, maybe someone will stumble upon this post with an interest in the subject and get something out of it.

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