Goats isnt run in the lower ranks, most of the time.
There are naturally instances where it is run. But by and large we have 2/2/2 games. It just so happens that rein/zarya are the optimal tanks, andā¦well, the healers are going to be pretty high up in the roster as we basically need at least 2 per game and there are only 6 of them. Ana being one of the most picked healers in every rank though should tell you how often goats is not run. Same for every time you see Mercy in the top 6.
Those heroes, while popular, arenāt ran together, therefore isnāt forming Goats.
They mean 3-3, rather than necessarily GOATS specifically.
Rein, Zarya, D.Va are thĆ© most common tanks, healers are usually Brig, Lucio and Ana or Moira. Iāve seen (and used) Hammond in place of D.Va, and rarely Winston in place of Rein - best match was actually Winston, D.Va, Hammond. Seen some other comps with Orisa in place of Rein (Hollywood Defence), and Roadhog in place of Zarya.
So yeah, this is Silver in the last week. 3-3 is happening. Itās not common, but experience tells me it will usually win and and until we see some changes, with the prevalence in OWL itās only get more common.
Mercy, Moira and Ana have higher pickrates than the GOATS healers and Brigitte is by far the least used support. This alone disproves your claim. And Rein and D.Va were the most popular tanks below Masters for years and that has nothing to do with GOATS. Zarya lately is overtaking D.Va above Silver, but they are almost never played together.
I donāt play comp much, but I can say that Iāve never seen any version of GOATS in my games and in almost every game the tanks are picked last because people hate playing them, especially main tanks.
Pre-OWL I never saw a GOATs comp(traditional or 2-1-3 variant) in gold/plat, and I was mostly instalocking Zarya to start. Even when there were 3 tank mains in the group, the strongly preferred comp in those ranks was a 2-2-2.
Havenāt played much since OWL, but the couple dozen Iāve been in seem to still be the same as before. If itās ran, itās nothing in comparison to what OWL players prefer.
guys you are missing a key point.
Just because you run rein zarya dva brig lucio zen doesnt mean you are running true goats.
Real goats takes a LOT of team coordination and proper ult and cd management.
Thatās what jeff was referring to.
So youāre telling me if there was some god tier hero that simply had map wide aura that did 200 damage per second that it wouldnāt matter if you picked them or not?
Sorry thatās really false. If a hero is stronger, itās going to be stronger. Even if itās not instawin stronger. Also lower ranks copy pick rates nearly as much as any other rank.
The whole āthey donāt really play dive below X rank. they donāt really play goats below x rankā stinks of elitism and is statistically false. The strong heroes are picked, regardless. Execution, teamwork, gamesense sure all that is worse. But saying a Lamborghini isnāt a Lamborghini because the person driving it isnāt a pro racer is the most absurd sell that you guys have eatten on the forums,and in blizz management yet.
No mate, your stance is absurd.
What you are saying is that just because you buy a Toyota corolla you are not magically a Rally Driver, ok?
Just because you pick genji, tracer, zen, dva and winston you are not playing Dive. Dive is a well executed series of push/attacks that use a very specific combination of skills and precision/timing that is HARD to have in certain ranks, almost IMPOSSIBLE in others.
Rein and Zarya donāt magically morph into bottom tier heroās just because you want your argument to work. It doesnāt, itās bad, and most importantly, itās wrong.
How is everyone in this post saying these numbers donāt show goats heroes are overtuned? We went from complaining that no one likes to tank or supportā¦to all the defense + offense heroes being labeled dpsā¦and they still have lower pick rates than tank or support. Pull the numbers in population from before goats meta and after, then look at the shift. If tank and support numbers are higher, either tanks + support are overtuned, or low elo players take in strats from high elo.
I never seen GOATS down here unless I get my friends to run it.
Bro, do you play in the potato ranks? Because I do. Since season 1. Iāve been <500 to mid-gold. Nobody at these ranks is able to successfully pull off any meta in the short history of this game. Good luck getting 6 players on your team who can even semi-competently play all of the Heroās necessary to pull off a meta-comp. Not to mention actually coordinate.
Iām sorry, but actually pulling off Metaās does not happen in 90% of the OW ladder (Plat and below). Hero picks rates does not mean players are able to pull off Meta comps at the potato ranks.
This is why I encourage forced 2-2-2 for Platinum and below. Learn the basics of the game and then once you hit at least Diamond, then you are given access to play some of the more nuanced Comps where teamwork and player Hero-pool flexibility starts to become a bit more prevalent.
So questionā¦ Who cares? Itās a meaningless question/answer/stance/statement/fact
Who cares? Lower ranks make up 98% of lower ranks. Iām sorry you stuck up masters canāt seem to be down to earth, but Goats is a pretty massive problem.
Itās not, itās just a comp.
Low ranks donāt really āplayā goats. They may have the comp but the execution is laughable.
I never play goats, Iām a Hammond main and I eat goats comps for breakfast om nom nom nom nom
The problem is that most people think that the only counter to goats is your own goat comp and then see who plays it better. Thatās wrong, play your own game and force the opponent to adapt to you.
Which is why Hammond is so good against it. If a goats team canāt maintain their close deathball then it shatters. All you need to do is divide or isolate even 1 person and itās game over.
The two statements āAlmost nobody plays GOATS below Mastersā and āThe GOATS heroes are OPā can both be true at the same time, you knowā¦
either way the game should be balanced around the pros
Goat might be used as a team comp in bronze
But itās not used as a strategy they just follow the meta without the coordination needed to make it works, itās basically goats in disguise or a mess basically.
I donāt really understand youār thread, it feels like youāre saying that nerfing every goats heroes will solve the problem yet Dive didnāt die because of a tracer pulse bomb nerf or a sligthly slower zen right clicks.
What we need is small tweaks and with the release of a new hero things might change.
Letās just hope our āmeta changingā hero wonāt be as horrible as Brigitte.
Sorry if my english sucks iām a baguette.
Jeff made a point in the video to say even if a team are using the heroes that make up goats/dive, they are still not necessarily playing goats/dive due to communication etc which is needed to do both strats which is extremely lacking in lower tiers.
This is exactly it. He states that even if the composition is similar, the actual team work required to make it work arenāt being done. Its kind of mind boggling that people only latched onto a fraction of what he said.