" 🐐 isn't ran in the lower ranks."

General Discussion
117

so a working comp needs healers and tanks and there are more dps heroes than both combined and you wonder why the most picked heroes are mostly tanks and healers?

wow

118

it doesn’t happen often but it still does.

119

If the crossfade lingers even slightly after switching, I never knew this and I’m currently a high master Lucio. Also I just tested it and there is no lingering effect. Please provide a source if you wish to reinforce your argument.

I switch to speed when I think speed will give my team more value than healing.

@OP - GOATS is sometimes run in lower ranks, but rarely and it’s not usually done well as it requires more coordination than people think.

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120

I believe the specific quote he made during dive was “People are playing dive heroes, but they’re not playing dive.” Back then, you could play Winston/D.Va/Mercy/Zen/Genji/Pharah or something to that effect, but he believed you weren’t playing a real dive until you hit around Masters.

The same goes for GOATS. We play GOATS heroes, yeah. We play Rein/Zarya or Rein/D.Va or even the full 3-3, but we aren’t really playing GOATS. We play the meta heroes, but we don’t play the meta. Plat GOATS is a lot sloppier and much more vulnerable than OWL or Contenders GOATS. Or even GM GOATS. And in my experience, Plat GOATS is a niche comp. Most games typically run 2-2-2 or triple DPS or something.

Now, to address the OP’s post:

Of course tanks and supports are going to have a higher pickrate. People run GOATS in GM, not to mention that there are less supports and tanks than there are DPS. There’s more variety in DPS so each DPS will get picked less than one tank because there’s so many of them. You’ll typically always see a main tank and off tank and a main support and off support. So that’s two out of six for supports and two out of seven for tanks. Versus the remaining 2 out of 16 for DPS. So yeah, you’re going to see more non-DPS heroes.

I don’t think the discord nerf is needed. He’s gotten one before with the same compensatory buff and if he gets that again, he may as well be a DPS instead.

I’ve seen plenty of threads talking about AoE stacking and I wouldn’t mind trying that. The CD between crossfade is kinda unneeded, though. Also, I’m pretty sure someone at the bottom is talking about it, but the crossfades don’t linger after you’ve switched.

Rein’s damage is not the issue either. Charge is a high risk-high reward. If he whiffs his charge, he is most likely a dead main tank. His swing is fine too. If anything, we should buff Orisa to make her compete with him. Not nerf Reinhardt. That’s going to be the path of least resistance.

As for the Zarya nerf, Grav didn’t become a problem until Hanzo’s rework. Because that made him git gud, and at the top tiers, games were won with Dragonball. That’s why people started complaining about Grav. Her ult was not a problem in any other season before that meta. It was more a complaint about Hanzo than a complaint about Zarya and they wanted to nerf the ult combo without nerfing Hanzo too hard. Then they gave the buff to keep Zarya at a similar power level. We could probably make do with her old charge back, though.

But honestly? Nerfing the GOATS heroes isn’t going to solve anything. There is no one hero in GOATS that is OP. It’s their synergy that makes GOATS meta. So if you want a quick solution for GOATS, buff heroes that can disrupt that synergy. Junkrat, Bastion, Pharah, Sombra, those kinds of heroes.

OWL is already finding ways to beat GOATS with the 4-1-1 that we’ve seen a couple times. High DPS + Hammond and Mercy works wonders. It’s slowly dying out and a lot of people on ladder just choose to not play it because they want DPS in their games anyways. I don’t want any nerfs to heroes that don’t need them. I feel we already got that with the last few nerfs Brigitte got (mainly the damage nerf), the armor nerf, and arguably the D.Va nerfs too.

121

Could he be referring to the thing where if you jump in speed mode and switch to healing in mid-air you don’t slow down until you land?

122

Its not only right, but 100% accurate.
Your example makes zero sense nor has any connection with reality dude.
A hero that deals 200 AoE the whole map? what the hell are you talking about?

If you really think that just picking a hero that escalates with your skill is going to make you better, you are going to have a bad time pal.

Spoiler alert: A hero will not boost your skill, you have to EARN it.

123

“GOATs is running rein zarya and the more you do it the more GOATy it is”

They’re popular heroes but nobody actually runs them all at the same time, because people like playing DPS. But no individual DPS will make top 6 because theres so many of them.

Even at the peak of Dive Winston was barely played below Diamond because hardly anyone knows how and even fewer know how to play with a Winston.

When half the tank and support categories are used in GOATs and you need 4 tanks and supports every match, of course GOATs characters are gonna make up the most played of most ranks.

124

goats hasn’t been used with moira for a VERY long time, and for good reason. dva eats moira’s orbs, so that renders her useless. and with all that armour and AOE healing going around moira’s 50 dps are laughable. that’s why moira was swapped for zen not long after the start of the goats meta.

goats is reinhardt, zarya, dva, brigitte, lucio and zenyatta. sometimes they swap out zen for ana (if the enemy team doesn’t have a dva).

125

Those heroes always have high pickrates at lower ranks though. What was the bronze meta during dive? Rein, D.va, and whatever supports you’ve got to work with.

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126

im currently in diamond and in one of my comp games last night my team ran a standard 2-2-2. the other team switched to goats when they were down 1-0 in control. we still ended winning with our 2-2-2 pretty easy, 2-0. most ranks cant even run the comp right, ppl like to think goats is easy but it takes a lot of communication.

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127

I’d guess most GM Lucio’s don’t even use that trick. It’s extremely difficult to do and isn’t super useful in most situations.

128

Tbh Moira being driven out of GOATs isn’t because she’s bad at it, its just Nano Boost/Bionade and Orb of Discord/Trance were better. Her orbs would typically be used up before enemy Dva could reach them since high level Moiras almost never use purple orbs.

Moira GOATs relies on solely Beat Drop to save themselves from Grav but Zen/Lucio can also use Trance making it stronger defensively.

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129

GM Lucio one-trick with 640+ hours on him. I’ll answer this

It makes our movement harder to track. Less likely to get our head clicked.

4 Likes
130

Meta doesn’t matter in the lower elos. You can run bastion and steamroll the enemy team, even on KOTH. The amount of rein run in lower elos was always because he is the tank with the lowest skill floor (even though he has the highest skill ceiling)

GOATS was only popularized in the lower ranks because of OWL.

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131

You’re ignoring options.

For those going for 2-2-2

Options are:
D-T-S
16 - 7 - 6

So pickrates would be (per hero, if “balanced” within their role):
1.04% - 2.38% - 2.78%

Support and tank heroes should have higher individual pick rates simply because there are less of them.

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132

???there arent metas in anything below diamond tf chu talking bout son.

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133

:goat::point_right::toilet:

Im sorry but it is

134

I disagree with this whole post due to the fact that I’ve experienced lower ranks on other accounts. And I can easily say it’s not ran down there. Just because people at that skill rating don’t really know how to play goats. So most choose not to run it at all. Even in masters a lot of people go goats as a last resort instead of the first pick.

1 Like
135

Just enforce 222 on ladder and then most these problems go away

136

this would be a variant of goats, then